PORK PIE MILAN

[TheDane]

Isn't the "pork pie" a Lester Young invention?

The rest is a telescope crown?

Not really - Buster Keaton was there before:

- and with him a lot of others. "Pork pie" is just a designation of hat with telescopic crown and usually but not always a rather narrow brim - adopted by many jazz musicians in the 50's

 

[ManofKent]

I think the term was in common usage back in the 19th Century.

 

[carldelo]

Per the Compact O.E.D. 2nd edition:

pork-pie
1. A pie of pastry enclosing minced pork.
2. (In full pork-pie hat.) Popularly applied to a hat with a flat crown and a brim turned up all round, worn by women c 1855-65, recalling the shape of a deep circular pie; also applied loosely to similar hats worn by men.

The first cited historical reference is from 1860.

 

[TheDane]

Hmmmmm ... my inner Technicolor plays around with Manfred's StrawBurg convertion. Somebody should combine a pork pie and a homburg ... "The HamBurger". A telescopic crown with a homburg brim could actually be quite a piece of head-candy

 

[Jomodad]

I stand corrected. I notice in one definition it says upturned brim. But it's all good by me. Hats are personal expression.


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[carldelo]

I notice in one definition it says upturned brim.

I think that refers to the original hat, i.e. the woman's version - the 1860 citation mentions women in pork-pie hats with long streaming ribbons, or words to that effect. I've definitely seen that type of hat in a period movie or two.

Also, the end of the def says "applied loosely to similar hats worn by men", so I guess "loosely" can mean with the brim up...

 

[Jomodad]

I just don't think I have seen a pork pie with the front down and the back up. But like I say... It's your hat, if you want it that way go for it.

I am new to the nuances of the different bashes and felts and it all makes sense now that I think about it. But until you really look or try to make one yourself. You cant really appreciate. I just don't think you notice thicknesses or the precise dent shapes, locations or straight sides etc.

I have always liked the hats you see in movies from the 30s and 40s but until the web I never found a source to purchase the vintage hats.


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[hatsRme]

Somebody should combine a pork pie and a homburg ... "The HamBurger". A telescopic crown with a homburg brim could actually be quite a piece of head-candy

:eusa_clap Wish I had thought of that... TOO funny!!!!

 

[TheDane]

Jomodad: How you choose to wear the brim does not make it a different hat. A fedora is a fedora, whether you choose to snap the brim up or down - in the front, in the back or all around. The same goes for a porkpie. The down-snap on a porkpie is not rare.

If people were unable to appreciate hats without making them, the majority of members of this forum would never wear hats. I'm happy for you, that making hats has given you new meaning to life - but there are other approaches to the phenomenon "hats", that seem just as meaningful to others.

I have never given birth to a pig - but I love bacon. I love my sister and loved my parents, but didn't make any of them. Sorry, but I have no problems appreciating things I haven't made myself. You may see my ability to do so as a special talent. I most certainly don't. In my opinion it's just a prerequisite for a rewarding life.

To a man with a new hammer, everything looks like a nail

 

[hatsRme]

I am new to the nuances of the different bashes and felts and it all makes sense now that I think about it. But until you really look or try to make one yourself. You cant really appreciate. I just don't think you notice thicknesses or the precise dent shapes, locations or straight sides etc.

I think you are correct in that until you REALLY LOOK you can't appreciate, as is evidenced so often by the uninformed folks when they make comments that show just how uninformed they are (I.E. the "Indy" comments top the list). Also because you say you are new to the subtleties, you are likely still in the discovery mode where there can be SO many details to behold! Loads of fun, isn't it!? I know I am still discovering!

But TheDane is also correct, I feel, in that we don't necessarily need to make something to appreciate or enjoy it.

All good!

 

[carldelo]

I'm pretty sure Jomodad was speaking of creating a bash on a hat, not actually making the hat. And there's something to be said for that - when you get a hat in your hands and start making decisions about crown shape, where and how large the dents are, you're forced to really look at the details of bashes and how they create the hats we like.

 

[TheDane]

I'm pretty sure Jomodad was speaking of creating a bash on a hat, not actually making the hat

Sorry, if I misunderstood the comment. It sometimes happens, when communicating across (language)borders. No doubt, that creasing and handling a hat gives you another insight

 

[Jomodad]

Maybe I should have said I appreciate it more. But I still think when you have hand stitched something or held different qualities of something in your hand, or cut a brim and messed it up that you can appreciate it more. It's just an opinion. I have learned almost as much from reading. But i don't think that reading about cutting a brim gives the same visceral response as doing it. The fear of the possible mistake or the happiness of getting it right and it looking the way you want.

There are different ways people learn some learn by listening and some by reading and some by doing. I seem to be learning about hats by doing. I am not saying that someone that has not made a hat can not appreciate it as much as someone that has. The point was... I did not see or appreciate the intricacies until I started my adventures in making hats. Same with the brim comment. Someone opened up the question about how to wear the brim. I offered my opinion that I thought a pork pie was worn flat or up not down in front or up in back. But I also stated to wear it how you like. No judgments. If its not safe to discuss or offer an opinion then I won't.

I am also learning about what to look for In cool vintage hat by seeing the hats you all are buying. Some great stuff.


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