Prices

[Neil]

After some truly valuable input from Lounge members, I ordered a couple of new hats this week, but the exercise left me wondering about price disparities.
I enquired of several custom hatters, all of whom have excellent reputations in this forum. All make lovely fedoras, all use pure beaver felt, all handmake and handblock their hats, all use nice ribbon and roan leather sweatbands, and the pictures of their products are sharp and attractive.
But for the same hat, there is a disparity of nearly 100 per cent. The makers from whom I ordered charge slightly more than $300. But others charge $400, $500, and upward. It wouldn't be hard to spend $600.
Are they sprinkling on some sort of magic dust I've been unable to research? Have they found superior beavers in some Canadian lake? Any thoughts?
Oh, one other thing: Early in my search, I at one point contacted the fellow who runs the online "Fedora Shop," a place in South Dakota. I asked about availability of the Stetson Pinnacle, and he told me he'd have to order it, and it would take four to six weeks, because it is a "$500 hat." (I did see it elsewhere for $325). And it isn't even custom.

Neil Macdonald

 

[Mike in Seattle]

You're paying for the knowledge, skills, popularity and reputation (intangibles) of the hatmaker as well as the hat (tangible item) itself. It's a case of the price being partially what the market will bear, good old supply and demand.

You can get a tax return done for $35 at H&R Block...but if you have some out-of-the-ordinary items and taxable situations, you'll probably opt to spend more and get a more knowledgable, experienced preparer to make sure that they're reported properly.

Why are some books $4.99 and others are $34.99? It's based on the reputation and knowledge of the author. Why does Tom Cruise get paid $10 million or more per film, while someone in a community theatre production may get only $100? They're both "just acting" aren't they? It's reputation and popularity of one over the other.

 

[carter]

BTW, a Stetson Pinnacle is NOT a $500.00 fedora. Ask that guy if he'll give you some of whatever he's smoking.

 

[Neil]

Okay, but. . .

What I am asking, from some of you who have actually had a chance to feel and weigh and wear the hats of makers like Jimmy Pierce, Art Fawcett, Gary White, Optimo Hats in Chicago, Adventurebilt, Montecristi Custom Hats in New Mexico, etc., is this: Are there substantive differences in the product?
I know about intangibles and supply and demand. But objectively, do some of the people I just named build hats that are fifty per cent or even a hundred per cent better than some of the others?

 

[carter]

Perhaps a question better answered privately. I've purchased hats from three of those mentioned. All make a fine hat.

 

[Delthayre]

Ærm mürzfíph zdügoaj miuzdüs sphalsæ.

In the cases of Optimo and Gary White, they probably charge higher prices than they otherwise would because both maintain physical storefronts. I imagine that the cost is especially severe for Optimo, being as their store is in downtown Chicago. I also recall reading that Optimo commissions its bodies specially from European mills, which doubtless is costlier than the American sources used by most bespoke hatters and there could be other similar factors.

I have always been curious as to whether there were any material differences among bespoke hatters, but it always feels slightly impolitic too inquire overtly.

 

[Neil]

Well. . .

I guess I will see soon enough. But good point on the storefront operation. I sometimes feel sorry for shopowners trying to sell a thing for thirty or forty percent more than an internet operation with no bricks and mortar.
From what I hear about Fawcett and Pierce, they produce an awfully nice product.

 

[carter]

I guess I will see soon enough. But good point on the storefront operation. I sometimes feel sorry for shopowners trying to sell a thing for thirty or forty percent more than an internet operation with no bricks and mortar.
From what I hear about Fawcett and Pierce, they produce an awfully nice product.

They do.

 

[HungaryTom]

I know Art Fawcett, Gus Miller and Gary White

Through one Montecristi each. The resulting panama hats are all superb.

I have felt hats only from Mr. Fawcett - for the reason of price. Excellence.

But if you see Mr. Fawcett operates from his home - Gary White poses alone on his shop photographies, I have seen two employees in the shop photos of Mr. Gus Miller, while Graham Thompson of Optimo seemingly works with a number of employees. Those US loungers who had the luck to visit the stores physically can give first hand info.
I don't know how much legal employees -not black market seasonal workers- cost in the USA for an enterpreneur but I guess quite a lot which must be reflected in the price.
The hatters must pay them each and every month whether there is an ebb or flood of hat sales.

Just my guesswork.

 

[Stan]

Hi,

Well, no one has brought it up, so at my own peril, I will.

I have more than one hat from Mr. Fawcett. Aw, he'll yell at me for calling him that! Art, that is! lol

He charges too little for his product. There. I said it. He's at *least* $100 too low, I think. But, as has been pointed out his overhead is low. And, he's happy so we're happy.

My point here is that when comparing, add $100 to Art's price and then recalculate. Maybe it'll make more sense then.

For hatters with normal overhead, meaning employees, they cost more than anything else. My wife and I own a screenprinting shop. We have six employees. Their total cost (pay, workman's comp, taxes, etc) is 60% of our total overhead (buildings, equipment depreciation, raw materials, supplies, etc).

I can see where someone running such a shop would have to charge more for what they produce. So, it all makes sense to me. Except for that Stetson Pinnicle, that is. I cannot see where a large factory manufactured hat is worth more than a hand-made one....

Later!

Stan