Removable mouton collar construction

[NamoAmituofo]

Hi guys

I’m about to commission a removable mouton collar for a straight zip with medium size collar.

I previously thought about replicating the construction of Shangri-La collar, as in pics attached.

I do recognize two short falls with this construction:

1) there are only 3 points to fix the collar - two cord loops on tips to fasten to buttons, plus a central leather snap that goes over the hanging piece.

2) the width of the mouton collar is the same as the jacket collar

Do any of you know of a better /more secure construction for removable mouton collar? Could you share some detailed pics on how this is attached to the jacket collar?

More over, are there any designs that allow the mouton collar to be slightly wider/larger than the actual jacket collar?

Thanks in advance!

 

[cbez]

 

[NamoAmituofo]

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Thank you this looks substantial!

Which jacket is it? Do you happen to have fit pics of the jacket with collar on?

 

[Aloysius]

Where are you based? Johnson could probably turn that around in a day or so.

 

[NamoAmituofo]

I’m UK based, unfortunately. But thanks to people’s help on this forum I’ve found an amazing jacket tailor (Donna) to do this in UK

 

[Aloysius]

A word of warning (I just remembered).

Aero jackets don’t do well with adding removable mouton. The collar is cut to hug your neck, so when you add something else on top it’s an extra inch or so of leather and fur that presses on your neck. This is why I basically never wear the fur collar Thurston made for my Aero.

 

[NamoAmituofo]

A word of warning (I just remembered).

Aero jackets don’t do well with adding removable mouton. The collar is cut to hug your neck, so when you add something else on top it’s an extra inch or so of leather and fur that presses on your neck. This is why I basically never wear the fur collar Thurston made for my Aero.

Thanks for that tip! The mouton I want to make is for a Vanson Enfield I just got. It will be my winter jacket!

I know what you mean re aero collar - I tried to wear a beanie hat with my aero jacket collar stood up - and it did press into my neck - quite uncomfortable I must say as I couldn’t keep my head up. I’d thought this was just an issue with my aero being new not broken in - but judged by what you said this may be due to design.

 

[Aloysius]

Thanks for that tip! The mouton I want to make is for a Vanson Enfield I just got. It will be my winter jacket!

I know what you mean re aero collar - I tried to wear a beanie hat with my aero jacket collar stood up - and it did press into my neck - quite uncomfortable I must say as I couldn’t keep my head up. I’d thought this was just an issue with my aero being new not broken in - but judged by what you said this may be due to design.

What I’m describing isn’t even a design flaw, because the collar doesn’t press —it just sits in the right place because it’s not cut to take an additional collar as for example a Schott Perfecto is. So once that’s on, it causes the discomfort. I think Aero uses a different a different shape for their motion collar jackets, which are non detachable, to accommodate for the mouton, because all three of mine are very comfortable. It’s the one with an aftermarket mouton that doesn’t sit right.

 

[Canuck Panda]

The mouton I want to make is for a Vanson Enfield I just got.

Instead of making a fur collar for each jacket you can have an universal one that can fit over all your jackets, as long as it's wide enough to fit over the widest jacket neck hole width, and just have the same male snap locations on all jackets. If I could go back in time this is what I would do instead of individual collars which adds up and kind of wasteful. Two universal fur collars in different fur colors should do the trick for the entire jacket collection.

And it's better to have full leather backing on the add on collar instead of the corner backing, much more secure that way, and can easily pop up the fur collar.

 

[NamoAmituofo]

Instead of making a fur collar for each jacket you can have an universal one that can fit over all your jackets, as long as it's wide enough to fit over the widest jacket neck hole width, and just have the same male snap locations on all jackets. If I could go back in time this is what I would do instead of individual collars which adds up and kind of wasteful. Two universal fur collars in different fur colors should do the trick for the entire jacket collection.

And it's better to have full leather backing on the add on collar instead of the corner backing, much more secure that way, and can easily pop up the fur collar.

Thank you that’s good advice!!

I got a piece of mouton pelt, plus a piece of Horween steerhide (as backing) that should be enough for two mouton collars. I may just aim for one universal for straight zip jackets, and one universal for a cross zip jackets with come with much wider collars.

I’ll post some pics when they are completed!

 

[NamoAmituofo]

After a long wait finally I received the mouton collar today with the Vanson Enfield - it’s based on similar to Buco design and WOW Donna Howard did such an incredible job! (Donna is jacket tailor/maker lady based in UK who spent 30 plus years making HH and sheepskin jackets).

And guess what the mouton collar pocket also fits well to a JL Barneveld Remix jacket collar. What do you think @Canuck Panda - is it a good idea to put snap buttons on this heavy goat jacket so I can swap this mouton collar across two jackets?

Absolutely amazing job by Donna! She used a piece of 2mm Horween steerhide I sourced for the collar backing - indestructible collar well except the mouton will wear eventually

 

[NamoAmituofo]

 

[Canuck Panda]

Looks great! Before you put the snaps in the JL jacket, wear the Enfield without collar and with t shirt or crew neck shirt to see how the snaps feels for you.

 

[NamoAmituofo]

Looks great! Before you put the snaps in the JL jacket, wear the Enfield without collar and with t shirt or crew neck shirt to see how the snaps feels for you.

The snaps don’t touch my neck at all unless I stand up the collar and zip to the top. Donna is so experienced she placed the 4 snaps/studs way below the collar fold so they don’t touch my neck at all.

That said, I’ve decided not to put studs on the JL jacket after all - aesthetically that jacket is perfect and putting stuffs on the soft and thick collar would ruin the look (and resale value if I ever want to part with it one day).

Instead I’ve commissioned a neckwarmer with the remaining mouton and backing leather - can fit under any jacket. That 2mm leather may choke me until softened up though.

 

[Iacovos]

Is there a place where we can buy the snap fasteners, whilst on the journey to construct a mouton collar?
Thank you

 

[Modified_last_call]

Is there a place where we can buy the snap fasteners, whilst on the journey to construct a mouton collar?
Thank you

Don't know where you're located, but you can start here:

Waldes Findings and Metal Components Catalogues

Metal accessories for haberdashery, jeans and leather goods: buttons, snap fasteners, trimmings, etc. Check our catalogues.

waldes.es

 

[f2002q]

After a long wait finally I received the mouton collar today with the Vanson Enfield - it’s based on similar to Buco design and WOW Donna Howard did such an incredible job! (Donna is jacket tailor/maker lady based in UK who spent 30 plus years making HH and sheepskin jackets).

And guess what the mouton collar pocket also fits well to a JL Barneveld Remix jacket collar. What do you think @Canuck Panda - is it a good idea to put snap buttons on this heavy goat jacket so I can swap this mouton collar across two jackets?

Absolutely amazing job by Donna! She used a piece of 2mm Horween steerhide I sourced for the collar backing - indestructible collar well except the mouton will wear eventually

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Wow, that mouton collar makes that Enfield sing!!! I’m glad I got Stu from LW make a collar for me for the Appalachian, it makes such a difference in the winter.

Your collar with the fastening snaps is just chef’s kiss, man!!

 

[raf]

As one can see from the Waldes catalog linked above, there are many different finishes, base materials, and diameter snaps, not to mention different length posts to accommodate varying thickness of material.
Sometimes the diameter is called "Ligne" or sometimes "Line" along with a number representing the diameter. Generally, the bigger the number, the greater the diameter. Sometimes the snaps are designated with imperial or Metric dimensions.

For reference, most snaps used in USGI field gear are:

Snap Fastener's, Black Oxide Coated Brass, Line 24 Standard Size​

Some snaps, such as some used on flight jackets and the USGI field jacket are similar, but may be smaller diameter, esp. those on the pockets and front flap of the field jacket.

Unless there is a very good reason for not doing so, I suggest the use of snaps with base material of brass, since it will never rust. External/surface finish as desired.

If installing snaps, make certain to get a kit consisting of Anvil, Punch, and Hole Punch. These kits, and certainly the punch diameter, may vary with the dia of the snap post, which goes through the material. Plan on "squaring-off" the cutting edge of the punch and sharpening it. One wants the dia of the hole in the material to be a tight fit to the post. Set the snaps using a FIRM surface for the Anvil. Test the "set" of the snaps by trying to rotate the separate pieces of the snaps against each other; they should be a tight compression fit and never rotate.

When setting snaps in some thinner materials, such as cloth, it is best practice to at least double-over the cloth so that the snaps won't pull out. Some folks will glue a small section of sturdy fabric in an unseen location to reinforce the snap.

There is a definite learning curve to properly setting snaps, so buy enough to allow some practice.

FWIW, it is common to find loose snaps on GI field gear, and perhaps some garments. Re-setting the loose snaps prevents them from tearing loose and is decent practice for setting new snaps.