Show us your SHOES !!!

[LoveMyHats2]

Literally every US maker had a version of the Gunboat during the 70's. From Bostonian to Florsheim to Allen Edmonds to Johnston & Murphy to Nettleton... and so on. Without viewing the interior writing and footbed stamp, impossible to discern one from another.

So very true. It may be totally impossible to know for 100% what shoes those are. However, if they have the original heel (heels like very worn and perhaps are not replacement with the half soles that are) then they just might be a best guess, Mason.

 

[Isshinryu101]

So very true. It may be totally impossible to know for 100% what shoes those are. However, if they have the original heel (heels like very worn and perhaps are not replacement with the half soles that are) then they just might be a best guess, Mason.

I agree if they were original. That half-sole is well worn and most every cobbler replaces heels with soles.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

[URL=http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/LoveMyHats2/media/russianshoemaker_zps4139670f.jpg.html] [/URL][URL=http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/LoveMyHats2/media/russianshoemaker4_zpsf63c0e6e.jpg.html] [/URL][URL=http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/LoveMyHats2/media/russianshoemaker1_zpsd73ed436.jpg.html] [/URL]

 

[LoveMyHats2]

These are a pair of shoes by the eBay seller from Russia. They remind me of other hand made shoes, almost similar to one pair of Vass shoes I recall awhile ago. If you look close you can see the hand stitching and from what I can tell by viewing all the shoes he has made, he puts his name on the inside of the bottom of the heel area stitched by hand also.

You can see he is doing the welt by sewing it on, and states it is a good year welt system. This pair of shoe shown above sure do look well made, nice heavy soles and heels.

 

[Isshinryu101]

My gosh! Look at that horrible stitching on the uppers! The stitches are different lengths and absolutely NOT straight. Work is done very amateurish.

 

[Isshinryu101]

Those stitches are really badly done. No uniformity whatsoever. Even the overall shape of the sock is distorted. It should have a stiffener behind it that makes it a clean oval... but that sock is all over the place.

These are shoemaking basics.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

As I am far from a shoe making expert, the points you bring light to may be very correct. I do however think the way the exampled shoes are made, are made so by intent and not perhaps by a lack of skills. If you view all the shoes he has made, some are more refined in the stitching areas that are more "loosely" done on these shoes, which are to what I would observe, trending to a more casual look for fashion than of being a formal dressy shoe.

I am sure I have purchased a pair of shoes and boots for Daniel along the course of hunting down nice shoes, that would display a similar heavy and off centered spacing of the stitching. That over empathized stitching done in a wide spaced stitch is even done on non shoe products, such as sportscoats and shirts, "pick stitching" is what that part of the fashion of what it is depicting.

As there is no way for me to conclude a total report on behalf of these shoes and their maker, I can only give the shoes and the person making them a positive viewpoint for several reasons. But if I decide to purchase a pair and can have the shoes be test driven, then maybe an over all summary could decide it the shoe maker is worth future purchases.

You may find at least with how I look at most things, I tend to place a value (if you can call it that) at being a positive person willing to be positive about most things and people in life, rather than to be critical.

These shoes are not super pricey. And even to me, they could more than likely be far more a better buy then what is being spent on factory garbage, and if so, then to know of a source for shoes that may last a long time and not cost so much, is worth looking into. I am not observing much of a "glue pot" being used in the making of the shoes from this shoe maker.

I am sure you would agree that so many shoes out there are almost a shock to logic, as they are given a brand name sticker that perhaps at one point of time, really did mean a well made shoe...but now are hardly even made with decent "glue" to hold them together. Horribly made. I noticed some of the Cole Haan shoes being produced makes me wonder who is making the deciding factors to what shoe models and materials involved? I see a few times pairs that are "custom ordered" and have been made on the same "last" as the Trafton shoe model, which was originally made a long time ago. They now have the "air trafton" and a formal shoe that is a whole cut plain toe oxford, which is not an "air" anything...just a nice well made shoe from Italy.

When I consider what Cole Haan as well as a vast majority of shoe makers are doing and have been doing far too long, is cutting corners to keep the price down so they can keep their doors open....but they also fail to realize that a good quality product to most, will always mean more (OUR opinion here in this household) than just a price tag.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

View attachment 13267

Those stitches are really badly done. No uniformity whatsoever. Even the overall shape of the sock is distorted. It should have a stiffener behind it that makes it a clean oval... but that sock is all over the place.

These are shoemaking basics.

Very soon I will send to you a CD I purchased and have copies for you and also for Cookie, I will try to mail out before today is over, or at least this upcoming Monday. As I am certain you have some ongoing conversations with a large number of shoe and boot makers, I am so very confident the information from the books that are on the CD in a PDF file format, will be very educational as well as fun to read.

As you may know, before Daniel had this last run of health issues about put him in the grave, he had already planned to take courses on making custom shoes and boots, and had purchased the leather materials he desired to make a few pairs of shoe and one pair of boots. In viewing the materials regarding what some of the well known custom shoe makers are doing today, is very interesting and for the most part, one custom maker that gives lessons to others (many do this for an income as well as to share a passion for making shoes which to them is an art of beauty), however, these books that I refer to from the PDF files, go way farther than what most modern shoe makers today involve themselves with. The interesting part to some degree is, that the steps and process of making shoes and boots totally from scratch, is something that if a person had the need or desire to do, can do so. Just one of perhaps a few thousand topics of content from some of the books that are on the CD show how to make the leather, tan it, cut it, process it totally, and even make your own "dye" for what colors you could desire to make the boot or shoe be. The formulas for that are from the 1850's time period if I am not mistaken.

As we can agree that some custom makers of shoes today do produce a "hard to beat" well made shoe that has a fashion statement as well as comfort and quality of enduring normal rotational wear, I have grown to seek out what is really well made and worth the money to spend on a purchase.

It is so sad that the shoe industry of what is made here in the USA has gone the road of the past. We here in our household have more than one time made the statement that we are sure Mr. Florsheim is rolling over in his grave with some very bitter feelings towards those that took over his company after he passed away. Be that as how it is, is a part of the reason I would want to show case what this person in Russia is doing. He may not be the best hand made shoe maker known. But if what he makes is worth buying and is desired from some portion of potential buyers on the Lounge, I could not help but to bring some awareness to his products.

I am sure also you know our "tastes" in shoes and boots are very similar, as most of the "die hard" vintage shoe lovers are. Here I sat the other day taking a long look at St.Crispin shoes, and see now something I did not know, they make WOMENS shoes! LOL! Do you think I will not fit into the budget for at least one pair for me of those? I love to learn about all of this. So does Daniel. Learning is what makes life interesting.

 

[Isshinryu101]

Be aware that Goodyear welting is NOT handwelting. The feather is not carved from the insole. It is merely a piece of textile that has been glued to the insole, then stitched to the uppers. There is a HUGE difference. Vass does not do goodyear. Theirs is a handwelt. Look at the pages on the feather and how they hand carve it.

Anyone can do a goodyear welt. Mexico, China & India turn out literally millions of goodyear shoes. It takes a skilled hand to do goodyear well.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but based on those pics, there is no reason to believe the shoes are any good. The irregular stitch is just crazy. One of the worst I've seen. No way is the stitch done both inconsistently and not straight purposely. Wide on the uppers may be a style issue, but when it's not straight or consistent, it is lack of skill.

Of course I am a shoe fanatic, and am VERY hard on the makers who claim "handmade", especially when it is not... or done badly.

I DO love your posts and thank you! Daniel is a VERY lucky man to have someone like you as a companion and fellow shoe fiend!!!

 

[Isshinryu101]

Saint Crispin is at the very top of modern RTW shoes. All truly handwelted and very finely detailed. Of course the cost is prohibitive (near $2k), but at least they serve as a comparison to show what is possible.

 

[Isshinryu101]

You DESERVE a few pairs of those Ladies' St. C's... as a woman with a true love for the great shoes and some excellent knowledge to boot!

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Saint Crispin is at the very top of modern RTW shoes. All truly handwelted and very finely detailed. Of course the cost is prohibitive (near $2k), but at least they serve as a comparison to show what is possible.

You can imagine however, the shoes that Saint Crispin does make, seems to have a look of fashion that is not so much a copy cat of anyone's work but their own. The few pairs of boots, one that is so eye catching with a blue color bottom and a fabric running up to the top, is in a class all of it's own. No secret that if Daniel makes a pair of boots, he would do something fairly similar, but wants to run some very wild exotic skins for what he would make. The fabric area would be replaced by the use of white stingray, the bottom of the boots alligator and making the boot have a "wing tip" instead of the plain toe, use the same white sting ray for the contrast to make them be a spectator as well. Not sure where he stashed all the leather items he purchased but he had to do some intense shopping to even find what he was looking for, within a price that was not out of this world to pay. It was concluded that to get some of the nicer skins of leather even not what is considered exotic, is not easy for a small timer to be able to be given the top picks such as a larger shoe company or shoe maker may have access to without such an high price tag, or to be given some lesser wanted chunks of leather to work with. The materials are being given to the "big boys" as economics for the leather suppliers desire to make as much long term money from orders over the small fry small orders. I am not able to even totally recall how much the sting ray and alligator and the leather for making the heels and soles came to price wise. But I do recall Daniel telling me he can see why some of the fancy made to order shoes, cost a small fortune for anyone to make them just for the price of top quality materials over cheap "cow hide".

I had to run over to pick up some items from the Cobbler today. He replaced the soles and heels on a pair of spectator florsheims.

Also I had the Cobbler discuss how to install some of these new semi clear "sole protectors" I purchased online. The material (seems like a cross of vinyl and sponge) just did not want to "stick" even after all the proper steps had been taken. The sole protectors became about $40.00 down the drain. But the Cobbler had some sheets of thin half sole. Really thin and more like a "topy". Flexible and thin Perhaps half the thickness of most of the other items like it, from different sources. But they can be sanded on the back side that will be given a thin coat of Barge as so will the sole area for this to be installed. Oh yes, these was all about giving the Foot Joy alligator shoes a longer life span. So one of my weekend projects will be to help get these put on the shoes here and without the Cobbler having to do so.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Saint Crispin is at the very top of modern RTW shoes. All truly handwelted and very finely detailed. Of course the cost is prohibitive (near $2k), but at least they serve as a comparison to show what is possible.

You can imagine however, the shoes that Saint Crispin does make, seems to have a look of fashion that is not so much a copy cat of anyone's work but their own. The few pairs of boots, one that is so eye catching with a blue color bottom and a fabric running up to the top, is in a class all of it's own. No secret that if Daniel makes a pair of boots, he would do something fairly similar, but wants to run some very wild exotic skins for what he would make. The fabric area would be replaced by the use of white stingray, the bottom of the boots alligator and making the boot have a "wing tip" instead of the plain toe, use the same white sting ray for the contrast to make them be a spectator as well. Not sure where he stashed all the leather items he purchased but he had to do some intense shopping to even find what he was looking for, within a price that was not out of this world to pay. It was concluded that to get some of the nicer skins of leather even not what is considered exotic, is not easy for a small timer to be able to be given the top picks such as a larger shoe company or shoe maker may have access to without such an high price tag, or to be given some lesser wanted chunks of leather to work with. The materials are being given to the "big boys" as economics for the leather suppliers desire to make as much long term money from orders over the small fry small orders. I am not able to even totally recall how much the sting ray and alligator and the leather for making the heels and soles came to price wise. But I do recall Daniel telling me he can see why some of the fancy made to order shoes, cost a small fortune for anyone to make them just for the price of top quality materials over cheap "cow hide".

I had to run over to pick up some items from the Cobbler today. He replaced the soles and heels on a pair of spectator florsheims and attempted to install some of these new semi clear "sole protectors" I purchased online. The material (seems like a cross of vinyl and sponge) just did not want to "stick" even after all the proper steps had been taken. The sole protectors became about $40.00 down the drain. But the Cobbler had some sheets of thin half sole. Really thin and more like a "topy". Flexible and thin Perhaps half the thickness of most of the other items like it, from different sources. But they can be sanded on the back side that will be given a thin coat of Barge as so will the sole area be lightly sanded for this to be installed. Oh yes, these was all about giving the Foot Joy alligator shoes a longer life span.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Be aware that Goodyear welting is NOT handwelting. The feather is not carved from the insole. It is merely a piece of textile that has been glued to the insole, then stitched to the uppers. There is a HUGE difference. Vass does not do goodyear. Theirs is a handwelt. Look at the pages on the feather and how they hand carve it.

Anyone can do a goodyear welt. Mexico, China & India turn out literally millions of goodyear shoes. It takes a skilled hand to do goodyear well.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but based on those pics, there is no reason to believe the shoes are any good. The irregular stitch is just crazy. One of the worst I've seen. No way is the stitch done both inconsistently and not straight purposely. Wide on the uppers may be a style issue, but when it's not straight or consistent, it is lack of skill.

Of course I am a shoe fanatic, and am VERY hard on the makers who claim "handmade", especially when it is not... or done badly.

I DO love your posts and thank you! Daniel is a VERY lucky man to have someone like you as a companion and fellow shoe fiend!!!

Thanks for explaining the about how the Goodyear welt is.

Also thanks for the compliment. I could write a thousand pages of why I am in my Husband's corner on vintage shoes and shoe care, and what is worth to own. Daniel has always been on the "wow, look what I have for you, and is a giving soul.

 

[bl@ster]

Some new Made-To-Order Allen Edmonds shell cordovan cap-toes, just in:

 

[bl@ster]

Also another pair of custom Allen Edmonds saddle oxfords in shell cordo:

 

[bl@ster]

And finally, a chili grain custom pair of Allen Edmonds that were designed to mimic a vintage 1950's AE shoe:

 

[countryclubjoe]

Hi Folks

Opinions please on Nettleton Shoes..
TIA

CCJ

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Hi Folks

Opinions please on Nettleton Shoes..
TIA

CCJ

I cannot speak for the entire history of Nettleton Shoes, but from what we have observed in what Nettleton shoes we have had come into our home, they are very nice well made shoes. The company perhaps almost took a complete nose dive for some time, and may have had some real financial issues but they are back on top now with some top shelf shoes....for a even larger top shelf price tag. I cannot say what they are selling today is really a price equals value deal, as yes they do use some decent leather and are made well...but there price may not reflect a desire for most people to part with that much money. I think most of the dress shoes they make are priced at $700.00 ( I will check now on that figure)....$795.00 base price for their shoes and have some higher end models that can run up to over $2500.00 They claim the shoes are "shoes of worth". Well now that may be debated more than any other shoe topic you could imagine. If you look at finding some deals on expensive shoes, for that sort of money you could save a few dollars up and then look into having something like a Vass brand shoe purchased. Over the past few years and looking into what is out there, Vass will offer some of their shoe models at around the $800.00 mark, or maybe a bit more but not all that much more. And even if the Nettleton shoes are entirely hand made, they are not close to the level of over all quality as a Vass shoe would be (as for modern shoes). Now if you find some vintage Nettletons and lets say they are NOS perhaps from the 1940's and up until the early 1960's, I think Nettletons are of a really well made shoes. The older ones have always been considered right up there with all the other well made shoes of that time period.

We have a few Nettleton shoes here that are Gunboat Wingtips. The leather is nice, calf skin and fully lined shoes. They were NOS when I purchased them. One pair still never worn yet by Daniel. I think we have one other real old Vintage pair that had been worn only one time that I purchased, they are Spectators (black and white) that from what we have seen, not very common for sale perhaps a rare find.

I think Isshinryu101 has some vintage Nettleton shoes for sale, he may have something that would fit your size?

It would be safe to say, if you find some Nettletons for sale, and they are not totally worn out, they stand a chance at being a deal for you as long as you are not spending an arm and a leg for them. My rule of thumb is, that unless a vintage shoe is sort of rare, NOS, or something you are just frantically in love with the shoe model and material/color/style of shoe, set a budget for the amount you would be willing to pay and just do not cross that line of spending. I shop at times and think, nice shoes....$600.00 price tag....I can keep shopping and find nice shoes.....$200.00 price tag....MUCH nicer now! In time a person can see what is out there enough to know what is a decent price and what is over board. I know Isshinryu101 has one pair of NOS Nettletons that are a 10 1/2M size suede and leather brown with white apron suede apron shoes, that are just stunning looking. Perhaps from the 1940's and those are so sharp looking and rare, not something you are going to see for sale much, well made, hard to beat. The price is up there, but you are looking at value and style and rare all at the same time. You would spend more than his price for a pair of shoes to be "custom made" just like them and in fact, you would have some issues of paying perhaps up to a few grand to even find them being made by a custom shoe maker. It would be such a grind, it would make you think, gee whiz, I should have just paid for the vintage shoes and owned them.

O.K. Novel is about over. Nettleton is up there with the rest of the worth while shoes to own. Not all of them, but most of them. There are some from shoe stores that closed their doors flooding the eBay market that are from the very early 1960's that are Gunboats, and just slide under the wire for still being really good quality. There are also some that are loafers, if you like them, well made. Most older Nettletons if from the 1950's or older, if in decent shape, and are not priced over board, and they fit you and you like them...then grab them up.

 

[SteveAS]

Very nice AEs, bl@ster. I particularly like the boots!