Stetson or Cavanagh?

[fedoralover]

In regards to vintage fedora's, which do you experienced vintage hat owners think made the better hat, Stetson or Cavanagh? This is in regards to both workmanship and felt quality.


fedoralover

 

[Andykev]

That depends

That depends. You have to compare apples to apples. I have a couple of vintage Cavanagh hats and a bunch of Stetson.

My collection: the Cavnagh hats are hands down far superior. Now I don't have a Stetson 50 or a 100. All in all, the Cavanagh in my opinion are some of the best vintage hats. I have a couple of MacLauchlan "silver beaver 50 " also in my collection. They are tops.

 

[Kentucky Blues]

My Cavanagh is my favorite hat

 

[jamespowers]

I have to agree with AndyKev on this one. You really have to compare the same level of hat to the same level of hat.
I have a Cavanagh 50 that is probably one of the best vintage production hats I have seen. But then again I have never held a Stetson 50, 100 or a Dobbs 100. The highest I have is a Stetson 25 and that wouldn't be a fair comparison. I like the box with the leather handle and the snap though. I see a Stetson 100 just went for $365 on eBay. I guess I just missed out so I will never know. :cry:
I suppose the vintage hat bodies came from the same suppliers in the old days. At least that is what George Rafferty of the old Mallory hat company said in an interview with Debbie Henderson. I think what makes the difference between the brands is the finishing. Cavanagh and the lesser brands just had to give you more for the money in order to even compete with manufacturers like Stetson. The Cavanagh 50 has one of the best sweatbands I have ever seen. It also has a cavanagh edge and the finishing is very nice. It is surely a hand made hat. A stetson fifteen was likely a machine finished hat. Maybe the Stetson 25 got some extra hand care but I would bet the 50 and 100s were hand made as well. These would probably be handled by the most experienced workers in the factory as well. Line workers didn't touch high end hats. They were given special attention all the way.
So in the long run I am not sure who gave you more for the money but I would bet the smaller companies would be inclined to use the old phrase: "not how many but how well."

Regards to all,

J

 

[fedoralover]

Actually the Stetson 100 on ebay that just went for 365.00 is what prompted me to ask. I have a Cavanagh 100 and was wondering if it was comparable.

thanks for the input.

fedoralover

 

[Wild Root]

Cavanaugh’s are good hats! But, what about Borsalino's? To me, the vintage Borsalino's are the tops! Also, I'm a big time Mallory fan. I have two from the late 30's and I love them! Soft, nice crown and just a very stylish hat.

Stetson's are always a good buy and I'll buy them when priced right.

Any way vintage in almost any brand you may find you'll see that they are just good hats period. Well, not so much the fedoras made from the years of 1942 -1945 because the war made the hatters make cheaper hats to conserve on fabric.

Root.

 

[Andykev]

Cavanagh

Actually the Stetson 100 on ebay that just went for 365.00 is what prompted me to ask. I have a Cavanagh 100 and was wondering if it was comparable.

thanks for the input.

fedoralover

IF you have a Cavanagh 100, it is a super hat. I would love to see a picture of it, and if you could describe..color..brim...etc.

Cavanagh hats were very very good hats in their day. Superior felt.

Sad that hats fell out of fashion for a while...it killed the industry. When I wear my hats outside, I get compliments. Too bad most cannot shop in their favorate men's store and buy a quality hat!

 

[Matt Deckard]

Stetson... Cavanagh...

I think Root is right, Borsalino.

The best vintage hats I have seen from the old days are the Borsalinos. From the finish on Daniel Risers grey Borsalino to the softness of my bone colored Borsalino. I have seen really heavyweight homburgs of theirs with super smooth finishes and I have seen super thin hats, thin as my light weight Optmos... a Borsalino which was trashed and reshaped back to life with a bit of steam, no droop from rain nor shrinkage (impervious).

Stetson is the General Motors of hats and they made a great product up and down the scale of quality. I have owned a few Cavanagh hats and lost one... it was my favorite hat.
Cavanagh from my perspective was an upper end hat.

Though if you wanted top of the line back in the day I say Borsalino was the cream of the crop. It's up for debate, though I have rolled up more vintage Borsalinos and had them turn out looking as if nothing happened. They had there junkier models in the 50's and they make hats that hold up as well as paper house in a thunderstorm today, though when they were good they were the best.

 

[Wild Root]

Well said friend! Stetson I think was the Ford of hats in the 30's and 40's. They had their higher priced models that are really nice hats that compare to Borsalino's and such. Knox made some good hats in the early days too. Not so much in the 50's and 60's. From about 1928 to 1948 Knox I would say made a nice hat.

Lee is a lesser known brand and even lesser discussed. Lee was a very good brand from what I have been told. It was a hat that was sold at very high priced men's shops. I have one and it's got issues. But, one can tell that at one time it was a real dandy!

Root.

 

[Brad Bowers]

So who made the Volkswagen of hats? J. C. Penney?

Brad

 

[Wild Root]

Yep

__________________________________

 

[jamespowers]

Actually Lee made those hats for JC Penney. Lee hats were actually the VW of hats. I hate to break it to you Root but they were the cheapest of the day and they advertised it along with Adam. They were selling hats for $7.50 when other companies were making $10 hats. That did not mean that they were not great hats though. Lee made good hats but you had to pay more than 7.50 for it. Like I said before, vintage hat bodies in this country came from much the same sources. Of course there were cheap bodies and then there were expensive bodies. Maclachlan, for one, was a body maker. So was Mallory and Stetson made some of their bodies too. I also know that Stetson bought bodies from Mallory and MacLachlan as well. They all knew what the other hat company was making---because it was coming from the same source in most cases.
Borsalino is another case because their production was based in another country. Of course there was Cervo and a few other competitors that probably had the same relationship as Stetson, Mallory and Maclachlan.
I have to give Knox, Dobbs and Cavanagh to you though Root. They were top hat makers for half a century for sure. Of course, to some extent, they were all the same company for that period of time. Knox and Doobs first and then in came John Cavanagh in about 1932---nearly the same time he invented the Cavanagh edge. Coincidence? Probably not. I sure would want to get my hands on that process if I were a hatter at that time. Cavanagh stayed an independent as well as part of Knox and Dobbs though. Cavanagh Ltd. existed separately as part of the deal. The whole history is just too convoluted to go into in such a short space though. :beer: Suffice it to say that there used to exist in this country a great amount hatting talent.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Wild Root]

So, did Lee just make hats and sold them to J.C. Penny's and then they put their Town Craft Lable on it?

I forget who told me that Lee was a good brand, I think it was an older man who ran a vintage shop. And no, I didn't get a song and dance from the guy so I would buy his hat. I bought my Lee at a costume shop for cheap. But this guy looked at it and saw the name of the shop and it said: Silverwood's Hollywood. And he told me that shop was a fancy Men's shop.

Any way, I need to send that old battle ax to Optimo to get it fixed! Needs new ribbon, bound edge, leather sweat and all! It has some moth issues but, still would be a fun hat to kick around in.

Thanks for the heads up JP!

Root.

 

[jamespowers]

I didn't say Lee was to be dismissed. Lee was a big boy like many big corporations are today. They sponsored Walter Winchel for fifteen minutes every night. :fedora: Lee was not a poor company in any way, shape manner or form. Stetson eventually bought Lee after Frank Lee died and his kids liked money more than they did hats. :rage:
Lee produced more hats than anyone else at that time. I suppose in reality they were a mid range hat. I was sort of thinking specifically of the JC Penney hats they produced when I responded earlier. Those were cheap hats! Lee had a HUGE plant when they were in full swing.
Yep, Lee made hats for Penney's. I don't need to remind everyone but Penney's at that time was exactly Nordstrom's. Penney's bought what they called a 4-line. It had a little edge, a band something like a western hat and it was a regular weight hat---not real light weight. It was sort of a farmer's hat---which explains why not many exist today.
Lee manufactured the whole hat for Penney's---liner and all. Of course JC paid for it all. The liner was cheaper than a Lee hat and the box was not exactly a presentation piece either. All in all a cheap hat but still probably better than a modern Borsalino or stetson. :kick:

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

Cavanagh Fifty

I figured since we have been talking about high quality vintage hats, I might as well post my Cavanagh Fifty. I like this hat and am glad that the photo picked up the sheen from the felt. Pretty nice hat. Cavanagh was a pretty decent hat then I guess.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Wild Root]

Nice hat JP. Like the color. You know a bit about hat companies! Where did you learn about these hatters? I didn't mean to say that Lee wasnt' good, I meant to say that they were not one of the top boys like Borsalino and such.

Any way, keep those hats out where others can see them!

Root.

 

[jamespowers]

Any way, keep those hats out where others can see them!

Root.

I wore that one to work today. I would say that is keeping it out and about.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Wild Root]

Boy you said it! :fedora:

Root.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Very good hat indeed. I wish I still had my Cavanagh. I lost it somewhere, or it was stolen... I just don't know which.

Too bad they don't make felt hats as good as they used to.

Like my vintage Borsalino... find me a modern day dress hat that can be rolled, not droop and not taper and I'll show you the money.
Still waiting to see how Zohar's modern pre-blocked hat takes the elements. Will it taper? you can pay a king's ransome for the finest quality fur, though if it can't take the elements like a vintage hat well... I've been there and done that.

 

[Engr-Chas]

Nice Cav 50. It looks comparable to my Stetson Imperial, now that is an awsome hat!