The Bowler or Derby Hat

[Rmccamey]

Thanks. That is a beautiful Stetson! I love the liner.

I've been finding that out with the bowlers, or I guess, hats of that age. I have another Nutria derby that looked to be in great shape, but the sweatband had separated along the front. I asked about the sweatband specifically before buying and was told that there were no issues. Oh well.

I will definitely get some more wear out of this Dobbs and don't have to worry about babying it too much, although I will do just that.

Thanks. Sometimes the threads on sweatbands can rot and the band can begin to separate from the brim. If it is just the threads, sometimes the band is still good, it just needs to be sewn with new thread. Talk to a good hatter. Resewing is much cheaper than replacing. Good luck.

 

[bmw1976]

Thanks. Sometimes the threads on sweatbands can rot and the band can begin to separate from the brim. If it is just the threads, sometimes the band is still good, it just needs to be sewn with new thread. Talk to a good hatter. Resewing is much cheaper than replacing. Good luck.

I believe that's exactly what is happening with mine. I definitely want to keep the original band, if possible. I appreciate the advice!

 

[The Shoe]

I believe that's exactly what is happening with mine. I definitely want to keep the original band, if possible. I appreciate the advice!

I had one that had separated from the hat and the edges of the sweatband were shot. The place I had fix it was able to chop about a centimetre off of the sweatband and keep the branding on there.

 

[bmw1976]

I had one that had separated from the hat and the edges of the sweatband were shot. The place I had fix it was able to chop about a centimetre off of the sweatband and keep the branding on there.

Great advice. I wondered if that might be an option. I don't think that would be necessary on mine, though, after taking a closer look. The original stitching holes appear to be intact, but the holes are so close together, and with such a fine thread, that it's hard to tell without breaking out a magnifying glass. The band is still soft and very pliable.

I'll post some pics of it soon.

 

[bmw1976]

Okay, here are some pics of my most recent derby. I believe it's a 1930's (give or take - but mostly a guess) Sarnoff-Irving in Nutria Quality. The size is 7-1/8", which has held true to this day. The felt is dense and very soft. No moth holes or other damage to the felt.
The hat was definitely worn, as the sweatband needed a good cleaning, but is still very soft and pliable. The sweatband has started to separate (as noted in the messages above), so I'm hoping to re-thread it in the near future. The liner is in very good shape, but has some minor staining. The ribbon, band, and binding are all in excellent condition.

I haven't been able to find too much information on the history of these hats, outside of the broad history of the stores, some lawsuits, and the death of 1 of the owners, but I can say that it is a high quality hat that I would not hesitate to purchase again. I hope to get it fixed up soon for some posts in the WHAYWT thread.

 

[bmw1976]

Nice recovery. Bowlers are notorious for dents and cracks that are difficult to see in pictures. And invariably the sweatband, binding and ribbons on old bowlers have problems as well. There are great one's around but it takes some effort to find the pristine examples. The hats with character certainly have their place. Enjoy.



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I just looked at your post again and noticed that my 1935-1945 era Stetson flat cap is from the same company as your derby. I have to say, that red liner is spectacular in your example.

 

[Rmccamey]

A very cool old hat. Enjoy.

Okay, here are some pics of my most recent derby. I believe it's a 1930's (give or take - but mostly a guess) Sarnoff-Irving in Nutria Quality. The size is 7-1/8", which has held true to this day. The felt is dense and very soft. No moth holes or other damage to the felt.
The hat was definitely worn, as the sweatband needed a good cleaning, but is still very soft and pliable. The sweatband has started to separate (as noted in the messages above), so I'm hoping to re-thread it in the near future. The liner is in very good shape, but has some minor staining. The ribbon, band, and binding are all in excellent condition.

I haven't been able to find too much information on the history of these hats, outside of the broad history of the stores, some lawsuits, and the death of 1 of the owners, but I can say that it is a high quality hat that I would not hesitate to purchase again. I hope to get it fixed up soon for some posts in the WHAYWT thread.

 

[Blare]

An unusual piece of bowler history…

Herbert Johnson - Soft Bowler
Warm Grey Felt
4 1/2 Soft Round Crown
d'Orsay Curl Brim 1 7/8 front/back 1 1/2 Sides
1 inch charcoal grosgrain ribbon

As our friend/lounge alumni Brent has said.. “sometime a hat just speaks to me” That was certainly the case with this Herbert Johnson soft bowler. It caught my attention with its warm toned grey felt and darker charcoal binding on its d'Orsay Curl Brim. Based on its pictures I was kinda envisioning a bit more of a soft homburg kinda crown but in person it is in fact a bowler shaped crown but still soft and shapeable. I imagine at a time when soft felts were becoming more and more popular while stiff felts/bowlers were still a bit of a standard especially in the British market this Soft Bowler made for a bit of a crossover. That said.. I’m quite pleased with it for two reasons… first it finally checks off the box of grey bowler. Second… the Soft Bowler designation makes it quite an interesting piece, an example of which I had not come across previously. And it’s a Herbert Johnson to boot. I’m no expert on dating HJ hats but the 38 New Bond Street puts it squarely in the rather broad range of 1895 and 1975. The notation on the liner By Appointment to Her Royal Majesty The Queen Royal Hatters puts us about 1953 or later. It certainly looks like the quality of hats we often see from the 1950s so that would be my guess. If you’ve ever had the urge to reach up and squeeze a pinch in the front of a bowler… this is the hat for you!

 

[Zombie_61]

An unusual piece of bowler history…

Herbert Johnson - Soft Bowler
Warm Grey Felt
4 1/2 Soft Round Crown
d'Orsay Curl Brim 1 7/8 front/back 1 1/2 Sides
1 inch charcoal grosgrain ribbon...

Okay, now THESE two photos make me want to skip a car payment or two and buy a Bowler that has been...well, perhaps not abused, but has somehow lost it's magical rounded crown quality and wouldn't mind having it's crown creased to more resemble a Fedora. Wonderful!

 

[Blare]

Okay, now THESE two photos make me want to skip a car payment or two and buy a Bowler that has been...well, perhaps not abused, but has somehow lost it's magical rounded crown quality and wouldn't mind having it's crown creased to more resemble a Fedora. Wonderful!

Once undesirable becomes undeniable

 

[mayserwegener]

C. G. Wilke "Haar Special", 57 cm, Fur Felt, 150 grams, possibly 1930s. This is the finest C. G. Wilke Guben Stiff Felt I have come across and it's in excellent condition. The Black Felt has a very nice smooth finish. The one inch Band works really well with the sharp looking Bow design. All the Components are of high quality with the Sweatband being exceptional. Overall great workmanship.

The Off White Reeded Piping creates a pleasing contrast with the Light Brown Sweatband.

Natural Light

 

[bmw1976]

I recently got this derby in from an online auction. I knew it was an older Stetson when buying, but the listing didn't have any pics of the sweatband stamps or tags underneath. It ended up having the 1900 Paris Grand Prize stamp, which should put it between 1900-1910, I believe. I love the Hemphill's stamp with the buck or stag. The hat is in really great condition, except for the sweatband stitching coming undone. The felt is really nice and soft with no tears, moth holes, etc. It's really small - 6-5/8", so unfortunately I won't ever get to wear it. Comes with the top vents, as pictured.

 

[Rmccamey]

Those are beautiful hats, and very collectible. As you have found, however, heads and hats ran smaller in those days and finding pristine examples in larger sizes can be a real challenge. Good hunting!

I recently got this derby in from an online auction. I knew it was an older Stetson when buying, but the listing didn't have any pics of the sweatband stamps or tags underneath. It ended up having the 1900 Paris Grand Prize stamp, which should put it between 1900-1910, I believe. I love the Hemphill's stamp with the buck or stag. The hat is in really great condition, except for the sweatband stitching coming undone. The felt is really nice and soft with no tears, moth holes, etc. It's really small - 6-5/8", so unfortunately I won't ever get to wear it. Comes with the top vents, as pictured.

 

[steur]

London Finish bowler in a grey colour called flint/grey. Size 56 with the brim at 4,5cm and the crown at 11cm. Must have had a liner at some point, but it's missing now, which is strange since the hat is in pristine condition otherwise. When I find older bowlers in a different colour I try and buy them, since they don't show up often. I'm guessing the original maker of this one may have been Moores.

 

[Steve1857]

London Finish bowler in a grey colour called flint/grey. Size 56 with the brim at 4,5cm and the crown at 11cm. Must have had a liner at some point, but it's missing now, which is strange since the hat is in pristine condition otherwise. When I find older bowlers in a different colour I try and buy them, since they don't show up often. I'm guessing the original maker of this one may have been Moores.

Nice find and no brainer not to buy, Stefan.

 

[bmw1976]

London Finish bowler in a grey colour called flint/grey. Size 56 with the brim at 4,5cm and the crown at 11cm. Must have had a liner at some point, but it's missing now, which is strange since the hat is in pristine condition otherwise. When I find older bowlers in a different colour I try and buy them, since they don't show up often. I'm guessing the original maker of this one may have been Moores.

That's a beauty! I like that flint gray. I have yet to come across a non-black bowler / derby that was in descent condition.

 

[Rmccamey]

Now there is something different! Well done, Stefan.

London Finish bowler in a grey colour called flint/grey. Size 56 with the brim at 4,5cm and the crown at 11cm. Must have had a liner at some point, but it's missing now, which is strange since the hat is in pristine condition otherwise. When I find older bowlers in a different colour I try and buy them, since they don't show up often. I'm guessing the original maker of this one may have been Moores.

 

[steur]

Nice find and no brainer not to buy, Stefan.

That's a beauty! I like that flint gray. I have yet to come across a non-black bowler / derby that was in descent condition.

Now there is something different! Well done, Stefan.

Thank you, gentlemen. Much appreciated.