The Cavanagh Club

[EggHead]

How does one date a Cavanagh? What should I look for?

 

[Brad Bowers]

How does one date a Cavanagh? What should I look for?

Since Cavanaghs tend to not change very much, with some '60s Cavanaghs looking nearly identical to '30s, the best way is from the interior. Sweatbands offer clues, with taped seams until '40/'41, sewn after that. Also, if it says "Cavanagh Edge" at the front of the sweatband, it's late-'50s onward. Interior tags also tell a lot, but the liner crest and address tell you what decade.

The divisions break down like this:
1928 to 1936
1936 to 1950
1950 to 1961
1961 to the present

Earliest version, 1928 to 1936:

1936 to 1950, approximately.

Hat Corporation of America formally made the change from "John Cavanagh, Ltd." to "Cavanagh Hats" on February 28, 1950, when the U.S. Patent Office approved their registration amendment. I don't know the lag time between filing and approval, as I haven't yet found the filing date for the amendment.
This change starts appearing by the late-1940s, so Hat Corp. didn't file immediately. But it's official in 1950.

1950 to 1961

This example is from 1952:

The final change was officially amended February 7, 1961 by the U.S. Patent Office, but again, this seems to start showing up by the late-1950s.

1961 to the present

Brad

 

[Levallois]

Thanks Brad, I know you have written this many times before but it's always good to see the latest knowledge about Cavanagh hats. It seems to me that I don't see many of the 1952-1960 liners. Is that your experience too?

John

 

[zetwal]

Thanks Brad ... :yo:

 

[EggHead]

Thanks Brad. When I get home today, I will take a closer look at the liner.

 

[Joshbru3]

Thanks, Brad!! I have always wondered how to tell the differences in dating Cavanaghs.:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

 

[Brad Bowers]

You're all welcome. This was actually from a thread I did that's been buried for years, and it's better off here.

It seems to me that I don't see many of the 1952-1960 liners. Is that your experience too?

John

Yes, that's one of the rarer ones, and I'm not sure why. I actually think those liners maybe lasted as short as 6 or 7 years, but the 11-year span is from the official trademark records. By far the most common is the last one.

Brad

 

[buler]

Add my thanks too, Brad. Dating references like this are always appreciated.

B

 

[hatophile]

Excellent job, Brad.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I was watching Bell, Book, and Candle tonight starring James Stewart and Kim Novak, released in 1958, the same year they were also in Vertigo. I noticed Jimmy's brown hat with wide ribbon sure looked like a Cavanagh, even had a frayed ribbon. Sure enough, in the scene in Kim Novak's flower shop at the end of the film, there's one frame that clearly shows the Cavanagh liner.

I couldn't tell if the black hat he tosses off the roof of what looks like the Flatiron Building earlier in the film is a Cavanagh.

He wears a wider-brimmed brown hat with a Cavanagh Edge in Vertigo, so now I wonder if that one might not be Cavanagh as well. I always thought it seemed more like a Knox.

Brad

 

[DRB]

Alan, good score. The edge is nice and crisp. I love those cavanagh edges.

 

[Brad Bowers]

1950 to 1961

This example is from 1952:

The final change was officially amended February 7, 1961 by the U.S. Patent Office, but again, this seems to start showing up by the late-1950s.

1961 to the present

Getting back to Levallois' earlier question, even though I've listed official dates here, if not absolute dates, the waters are muddy concerning the dates they actually go into use. The 1950-61 liners, as I said earlier, were probably in use by the late-'40s, and started disappearing by the late-'50s. This gives us possible dates of perhaps 1946-1957 or so. As an example, there's a Cavanagh homburg on eBay right now that features the addressless "offical date" post-'61 liner, but the box with the hat, which I'm sure is original to the hat, has a date of March 1958. Poor hat, it has a very unrealistic opening bid, so probably won't sell. The size is listed as big, "7 5/8 -7 1/4."

The practical breakdown might look like this:
1928-1936
1936-1946
1946-1957
1957-Present

Brad

 

[Levallois]

Finally got my late 40s-early 50s Cavanagh Fedora - 1 15/16-inch sweat, 2-inch ribbon, 5 1/4-inch crown, cavanagh edge - not identified as such on the sweatband, size 7 1/2, looks like a 20.00 or 25.00 price tag? and sewn liner.

Cav edge looks ok to me - doesn't look or feel flattened at all.

 

[randooch]

Beautiful, Levallois. If you decide you can't stand the sight of it, give me a ringy-dingy.

 

[DJH]

Very nice. Most of the Cavanagh's I come across are challenged in the brim width department, but this hat has great proportions.
Congratulations on finding it.

 

[alanfgag]

That is a great one... nice catch!

 

[Garrett]

If you post a liner shot I'm sure Brad Bowers will date it for you. Looks great!

 

[Levallois]

I appreciate the replies! I dont now why I said early 50s for this one as Brad had already said 40s earlier.

Man, what a lid! There is something about Cavanaghs. I compared it to my two Imperial Stetsons from around the same period and it's at least as good and maybe even a little better.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Nice to see that wonderful Cavanagh on your head, Levallois! I'm glad the edge wasn't flattened.

I recently won this Cavanagh countertop sign, which goes nicely with my Dobbs sign.

Brad

 

[Levallois]

Thanks Brad - nice sign! I have a few more questions. Did the price tag or reorder tag help with narrowing the dating at all for my hat? Why wouldn't my hat have the "Cavanagh Edge" designation on the sweatband? How common were the original buyers initials on the sweatbands of these hats and was this done by Cavanagh or by the store? Thanks again!

John

L.