The general decline in standards today

[jamespowers]

So? The breakup still opened the path for new players in the market. Anti-trust laws are not meant as a mechanism to prevent people from making money.

And as for Rockefeller, he was super rich long before 1911. At the time if the breakup, he was worth about $200 billion in today's money.

And after he was worth three times as much. lol lol

 

[LizzieMaine]

What's interesting is how the Standard behemoth has been steadily reassembling itself over the last hundred years -- from 11 Standard companies marketing in defined territories in 1911, there are now three. So much for competition.

 

[jamespowers]

What's interesting is how the Standard behemoth has been steadily reassembling itself over the last hundred years -- from 11 Standard companies marketing in defined territories in 1911, there are now three. So much for competition.

That always happens when a company is broken up. Eventually it becomes one again. Bell will eventually become one again as well. Too much duplication of service just makes it happen.

 

[rjb1]

"What's interesting is how the Standard behemoth has been steadily reassembling itself over the last hundred years"
"That always happens when a company is broken up. Eventually it becomes one again."

Does this remind anyone of a corporate version of the second "Terminator"? The silver-guy just kept putting himself back together...

 

[HudsonHawk]

What's interesting is how the Standard behemoth has been steadily reassembling itself over the last hundred years -- from 11 Standard companies marketing in defined territories in 1911, there are now three. So much for competition.

Well, it's not quite that bad. There are three companies that have rights to the Standard name, but companies broken out of Standard in 1911 are now parts of ExxonMobil, Chevron, BP, Shell, Marathon and Sunoco. Still, like AT&T and the "baby bells", they've slowly reattached themselves to each other, at least in part. What these companies don't have, however, is the stranglehold on pipelines, shipping, railroads, etc that Standard had. Furthermore, since the formation of OPEC in 1960, oil companies have almost no say-so in the price, both of which were the government's biggest gripes with Standard.

 

[HudsonHawk]

And after he was worth three times as much. lol lol

True, but it's not as if he was scraping by or even merely "rich". He was already insanely wealthy, well beyond what anyone else could have only imagined, before or since.

 

[jamespowers]

Well, it's not quite that bad. There are three companies that have rights to the Standard name, but companies broken out of Standard in 1911 are now parts of ExxonMobil, Chevron, BP, Shell, Marathon and Sunoco. Still, like AT&T and the "baby bells", they've slowly reattached themselves to each other, at least in part. What these companies don't have, however, is the stranglehold on pipelines, shipping, railroads, etc that Standard had. Furthermore, since the formation of OPEC in 1960, oil companies have almost no say-so in the price, both of which were the government's biggest gripes with Standard.

So they traded Standard Oil price controls which were in this country and subject to our laws with oil price controls outside our country with no ability to change them and not subject to our laws. Great job...:eusa_doh:

You know, of course that Rockefeller controlled the pipelines because he built them all right? This was in response to the railroads which had formed a compact against him to force him to pay their transportation rates. He went around them and screwed them instead of them screwing him.

 

[jamespowers]

True, but it's not as if he was scraping by or even merely "rich". He was already insanely wealthy, well beyond what anyone else could have only imagined, before or since.

Anyone else like say Andrew Carnegie, JP Morgan and a host of others from the time?

 

[HudsonHawk]

So they traded Standard Oil price controls which were in this country and subject to our laws with oil price controls outside our country with no ability to change them and not subject to our laws. Great job...:eusa_doh:

They didn't "trade" anything. By 1960, oil was discovered all over the world and American companies simply didn't control the market anymore. This would have happened whether Standard broke up or not.

You know, of course that Rockefeller controlled the pipelines because he built them all right? This was in response to the railroads which had formed a compact against him to force him to pay their transportation rates. He went around them and screwed them instead of them screwing him.

And this is the essence of anti-trust regulation.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Anyone else like say Andrew Carnegie, JP Morgan and a host of others from the time?

Those guys were rich, but not Rockefeller rich.

 

[jamespowers]

Those guys were rich, but not Rockefeller rich.

JP Morgan had more when he died than Rockefeller did.

 

[jamespowers]

They didn't "trade" anything. By 1960, oil was discovered all over the world and American companies simply didn't control the market anymore. This would have happened whether Standard broke up or not.



And this is the essence of anti-trust regulation.

They didn't know they were trading at the time but that is what they did. You really think Rockefeller would not have been global if Standard was not broken up?! You obviously do not realize how ambitious he was. lol lol

Rockefeller didn't need anti trust regulation---he just went around the railroad trusts. lol lol

 

[HudsonHawk]

JP Morgan had more when he died than Rockefeller did.

Not in "today's dollars". Rockefeller was worth nearly $1 trillion in current dollars, Morgan 1/10th that.

 

[HudsonHawk]

They didn't know they were trading at the time but that is what they did. You really think Rockefeller would not have been global if Standard was not broken up?! You obviously do not realize how ambitious he was. lol lol

You obviously do not realize how powerful King Abdulaziz al-Saud was.

 

[jamespowers]

Not in "today's dollars". Rockefeller was worth nearly $1 trillion in current dollars, Morgan 1/10th that.

I don't know where you get a trillion. In inflation adjusted dollars, Celebrity net worth rates Rockefeller at 340 billion when he died in 1937. Carnegie was rated at 310 billion---he got this from JP Morgan when he sold Carnegie Steel to him. Figuring that into JP Morgan's net worth you have far more money than either Rockefeller or Carnegie. You have to remember that JP Morgan was the inventor of our modern banking system. If he didn't have a ton of money---he could get it.

 

[jamespowers]

You obviously do not realize how powerful King Abdulaziz al-Saud was.

Rockefeller had more money and more power.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Rockefeller had more money and more power.

But he didn't have the oil.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I don't know where you get a trillion. In inflation adjusted dollars, Celebrity net worth rates Rockefeller at 340 billion when he died in 1937. Carnegie was rated at 310 billion---he got this from JP Morgan when he sold Carnegie Steel to him. Figuring that into JP Morgan's net worth you have far more money than either Rockefeller or Carnegie. You have to remember that JP Morgan was the inventor of our modern banking system. If he didn't have a ton of money---he could get it.

Most estimates of Rockefeller's fortune are around $900+billion. Morgan didn't even have as much as Carnegie and combined they didn't have as much as Rockefeller.

Rockefeller had a billion dollars, back when a billion dollars actually meant something.

 

[jamespowers]

But he didn't have the oil.

He would have given the chance.

 

[jamespowers]

Most estimates of Rockefeller's fortune are around $900+billion. Morgan didn't even have as much as Carnegie and combined they didn't have as much as Rockefeller.

Rockefeller had a billion dollars, back when a billion dollars actually meant something.

That was a billion back then. Now about 340 Billion.

JP Morgan was different than the other two in the sense that he was born rich so he knew how to live it. Morgan had more money wrapped up in art, yachts and a bunch of other concerns that never get to the bottom line because they are sort of intangible---and were much more so than today. He definitely had more power than the other two. When you wonder who ran the government back in those days---you know a large part of it ran back to JP Morgan. Ever wonder why they broke up Standard Oil but left JP Morgan's assets alone? Rockefeller did.