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The Good Neighbor Policy; Latin music in the 30's and 40's....
- Thread starter Lincsong
- Start date
[video=youtube;OukLUt1c_ls]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OukLUt1c_ls&feature=related[/video]
martinsantos
Practically Family
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This little record (2 sides of a 10" 78) made an inimaginable sucess at those days! And had everything to get this sucess. Francisco Alves was "the" singer here. The orchestra is arranged and conducted by Radames Gnatalli - one of the most proeminent classical conductors and composers at those days. And the songwriter, Ary Barroso, wrote some of the most famous songs of those days - specially ballads, more than numbers like the "Aquarela do Brasil".
The samba get a similar story that jazz took. its origins came from the "choro", a kind of ragtime, with strong influences from waltzes. And went to a big band fashion in early 30s/40s. And in 50s/60s, to bossa nova - let's say, a kind of intelectualized samba.
Curiously, here the spanish latin music didn't make great sucess until mid 50s. Some singers, like Gardel and Pedro vargas with tangos - but not the usual on radio. Guaranias and mambos were a lot exotic!
The samba get a similar story that jazz took. its origins came from the "choro", a kind of ragtime, with strong influences from waltzes. And went to a big band fashion in early 30s/40s. And in 50s/60s, to bossa nova - let's say, a kind of intelectualized samba.
Curiously, here the spanish latin music didn't make great sucess until mid 50s. Some singers, like Gardel and Pedro vargas with tangos - but not the usual on radio. Guaranias and mambos were a lot exotic!
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Carlos Gardel -- El Dia Que Me Quieras (1935)
(The Day That You Love Me)
[video=youtube;RmXCVOmOCPU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmXCVOmOCPU&feature=related[/video]
(The Day That You Love Me)
[video=youtube;RmXCVOmOCPU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmXCVOmOCPU&feature=related[/video]
martinsantos
Practically Family
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Two records by one of the most popular singers in Brazil in late 30s, Mr Orlando Silva. Both records with the studio orchestra from Victor. Both songs give a good look into what was the usual "popular music" here in those days.
[video=youtube;gw6GthuBRzU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw6GthuBRzU&tracker=False[/video]
[video=youtube;s3ACY3eBgkc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ACY3eBgkc&tracker=False[/video]
[video=youtube;gw6GthuBRzU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw6GthuBRzU&tracker=False[/video]
[video=youtube;s3ACY3eBgkc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ACY3eBgkc&tracker=False[/video]
Chas
One Too Many
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By strict definition Brasilians are not Latinos, ergo Brazilian music isn't Latin music.
Splitting hairs, maybe...
Splitting hairs, maybe...
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Lefty W.
One of the Regulars
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Hey, Martin Santos - I know you're in S.P., but do you follow the samba competitions in Rio? Beija Flor won, Tijuca came in second, once again on the strength of the magic act of its comissao de frente.
Off topic, I know...
Off topic, I know...
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Portuguese is one of the Romance languages. Wiki says:
The Romance languages (sometimes referred to as Romanic languages, Latin languages, Neolatin languages or Neo-Latin languages) are a branch of the Indo-European language family, more precisely of the Italic languages subfamily, comprising all the languages that descend from Vulgar Latin, the language of ancient Rome.
As a Latin based language we might be excused for thinking the music is Latin in a way also.
martinsantos
Practically Family
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Now you surprised me, Chas!
As I live in Latin America, all music here would be... Latin music Well, it has a different "sound" than music from Mexico, Argentine, Paraguay and so on - in this sense, you're right. Anyway... I confess I never cared much about these definitons!
fftopic:
LeftyW, I don't follow any samba competitions... Of course it's a beautiful show, but it's very far from what "carnaval" really is, the "street party" that unhappilly doesn't appear in newspaper or in Tv. Did you have the chance to know?
As I live in Latin America, all music here would be... Latin music Well, it has a different "sound" than music from Mexico, Argentine, Paraguay and so on - in this sense, you're right. Anyway... I confess I never cared much about these definitons!
fftopic:LeftyW, I don't follow any samba competitions... Of course it's a beautiful show, but it's very far from what "carnaval" really is, the "street party" that unhappilly doesn't appear in newspaper or in Tv. Did you have the chance to know?
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Lincsong
I'll Lock Up
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Splitting is correct. That's like saying that by strict definition Celts are not Scots are not Normans. bahahahahhahaha Not to get too off topic, but the term "latino" has been hijacked by Mexicans/Chicanos.
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Carlos Gardel -- Noches De Atenas (1933)
(Athens Nights)
[video=youtube;UByqWp9HscU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UByqWp9HscU&feature=channel_video_title[/video]
(Athens Nights)
[video=youtube;UByqWp9HscU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UByqWp9HscU&feature=channel_video_title[/video]
dhermann1
I'll Lock Up
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Re: Latino. The word comes from the language of the Romans. Latin spawned Italian, Spanish, French, Romanian and Portuguese. So any of those languages have a right to the name Latin. Brazulian music is CERTAINLY Latin music.
Anyhow . . . I have a great Desi Arnaz album of music from the late 40's and early 50's. Most people don't realize that Desi Arnaz was huge in the Latin music world for quite a while. He specialized in a sort of cross over music between the English speaking world and the Latin music fan base. The album include Babaloo (of course), Cuban Pete, and a nice song "Yo Soy de Nueva York". Great stuff.
Anyhow . . . I have a great Desi Arnaz album of music from the late 40's and early 50's. Most people don't realize that Desi Arnaz was huge in the Latin music world for quite a while. He specialized in a sort of cross over music between the English speaking world and the Latin music fan base. The album include Babaloo (of course), Cuban Pete, and a nice song "Yo Soy de Nueva York". Great stuff.
Chas
One Too Many
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I got turned on to the debate about Brazilian/Latin from a Brazilian chap who had a show on CiTR and when I brought up the subject of "Latin" music he quickly corrected me that "Brasilians are not Latin". So I'm not making this up.
Really.
Really.
dhermann1
I'll Lock Up
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She's crazy. Really. I guess Brazilians get tired of explaining to people that they're not Spanish. But the term Latin should not get conflated with Spanish.
Lincsong
I'll Lock Up
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I think she was pulling your leg. About the only countries down there that aren't "Latin" are Haiti, Belize and Suriman.
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Funny, I thought Belize was.
Aristaeus
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[video=youtube;JCVQ-WmNvgE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCVQ-WmNvgE[/video]
Aristaeus
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Orquestra Tipica Osvaldo Fresedo -- Dulce Amargura (tango)
(Sweet Bitterness)
[video=youtube;pe4cRYpFIAo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe4cRYpFIAo&feature=channel_video_title[/video]
(Sweet Bitterness)
[video=youtube;pe4cRYpFIAo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe4cRYpFIAo&feature=channel_video_title[/video]
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Latin Music Legends
The US Postal Service recently issued this series of stamps honoring Carlos Gardel, Carmen Miranda, Tito Puente, Celia Cruz, and Selena. I picked these up at the post office today.
The US Postal Service recently issued this series of stamps honoring Carlos Gardel, Carmen Miranda, Tito Puente, Celia Cruz, and Selena. I picked these up at the post office today.
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Rundquist
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This has been an interesting thread and it’s been hard for me not to post to it before. For one thing, the term “Latin” encompasses a lot of different music. In fact the musical styles are so different, that to me it is a disservice to lump it all together. The cartoons really bear testament to this, as they are all over the place in terms of culture.
The common theme that I do pick up on is the use of some Latin components as gimmicks. Americans looked on Latin music in the 30’s, as a bit of a fad. In fact people still refer to the Rumba as a dance when there is no real dance called the rumba. It’s just an umbrella term for afro-Caribbean rhythm. A “Rumbon” was an informal gathering to play and dance music. Perhaps that is where the term came from.
Now, there were specific afro-Caribbean rhythms that were prominent in the 30’s. The first and foremost was the Danzon, which could be traced back 2 hundred years and had it’s origins in European music. Many people don’t realize that the Caribbean was a racist region that had slaves just like the United States. As African music was brought to America, so was it brought to Cuba, Puerto Rico, and so on. The major difference in the development of their music (as opposed to "ours" in the States) was that the slaves in the Caribbean were allowed to keep their drums. Just as jazz was thriving in America, so was African based music thriving elsewhere.
At the turn of the Century right up to the 30’s, African elements kept infusing into the Danzon. High society in the region at the time considered this morphing to be scandalous and distasteful (some things never change).
The other major Cuban dance of the 30’s was the “Son”. Elements of the Son have survived and have been incorporated into various styles of “Salsa” (another umbrella term).
You can’t really have a discussion on the modern development of Afro-Caribbean music,
without mentioning Israel “Cachao” Lopez and Arsenio Rodriquez. Those are the two that really led the way with regards the use of African derived rhythms and African derived percussion instruments. They invented most of the elements that we regard as standard today.
The other two guys that were instrumental in the development and deployment of modern Afro-Carribean music were “Machito” (Frank Grillo) along with his partner Mario Bauza (the father of Latin Jazz), and Benny More (essentially Cuba’s version of Frank Sinatra). Machito and his Afro-Cuban orchestra was based out of NY. Today they are considered the "Duke Ellington" of Latin Jazz music.
Most of the afro-Caribbean clips in this thread are gentrified bastardizations of Latin music invented for the soft pallets of the American audience. This is not to say that there is anything wrong with the music, especially if you happen to enjoy it. But the real deal is out there waiting to be discovered. All you have to do is look. That music changed my life.
The common theme that I do pick up on is the use of some Latin components as gimmicks. Americans looked on Latin music in the 30’s, as a bit of a fad. In fact people still refer to the Rumba as a dance when there is no real dance called the rumba. It’s just an umbrella term for afro-Caribbean rhythm. A “Rumbon” was an informal gathering to play and dance music. Perhaps that is where the term came from.
Now, there were specific afro-Caribbean rhythms that were prominent in the 30’s. The first and foremost was the Danzon, which could be traced back 2 hundred years and had it’s origins in European music. Many people don’t realize that the Caribbean was a racist region that had slaves just like the United States. As African music was brought to America, so was it brought to Cuba, Puerto Rico, and so on. The major difference in the development of their music (as opposed to "ours" in the States) was that the slaves in the Caribbean were allowed to keep their drums. Just as jazz was thriving in America, so was African based music thriving elsewhere.
At the turn of the Century right up to the 30’s, African elements kept infusing into the Danzon. High society in the region at the time considered this morphing to be scandalous and distasteful (some things never change).
The other major Cuban dance of the 30’s was the “Son”. Elements of the Son have survived and have been incorporated into various styles of “Salsa” (another umbrella term).
You can’t really have a discussion on the modern development of Afro-Caribbean music,
without mentioning Israel “Cachao” Lopez and Arsenio Rodriquez. Those are the two that really led the way with regards the use of African derived rhythms and African derived percussion instruments. They invented most of the elements that we regard as standard today.
The other two guys that were instrumental in the development and deployment of modern Afro-Carribean music were “Machito” (Frank Grillo) along with his partner Mario Bauza (the father of Latin Jazz), and Benny More (essentially Cuba’s version of Frank Sinatra). Machito and his Afro-Cuban orchestra was based out of NY. Today they are considered the "Duke Ellington" of Latin Jazz music.
Most of the afro-Caribbean clips in this thread are gentrified bastardizations of Latin music invented for the soft pallets of the American audience. This is not to say that there is anything wrong with the music, especially if you happen to enjoy it. But the real deal is out there waiting to be discovered. All you have to do is look. That music changed my life.
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