The test isn’t whether they use the exact same font. Maybe they are slightly different if examined closely enough. But the legal test is whether their brandings are sufficiently the same or similar enough that could risk customer confusion. And that answer is yes, as shown by the disagreements and pages of discussion whether they are the same company or different companies. That’s customer confusion.
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The Legendary DURABLE (Wild One) Jacket
- Thread starter Mysteryo
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The test isn’t whether they use the exact same font. Maybe they are slightly different if examined closely enough. But the legal test is whether their brandings are sufficiently the same or similar enough that could risk customer confusion. And that answer is yes, as shown by the disagreements and pages of discussion whether they are the same company or different companies. That’s customer confusion.
jeo
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Across borders? Highly doubt anyone in the US ever saw a Durable of Canada jacket. I don’t believe they were sold in the US and based on how many of them are out there it seems they didn’t sell much in Canada either.
Another wild assumption that you’re stating as fact.
Not sure why you keep saying this. There are only opinions vs facts. Theories and conclusions are opinions, whereas facts are verifiable like the sun rising from the east. You have your own conclusions, so does Marc, Terry, or I.
Who makes a certain jacket is an opinion, unless it’s verified by a label (even then, the label could have been attached onto the jacket afterwards). Whether Durable is one company/two related companies OR two unrelated companies is an opinion. You’re entitled to your own opinion, as I mine. You’re not entitled to decide what mine should be.
For example, if you only have three data points, you may call it a triangle. If I have four data points, I could call it a square or a rectangle, or vice versa. These are all conclusions / opinions. More data points might emerge to change one’s opinion. No one is “stating it as fact”, as we are all reading tea leaves about what happened in the past.
I’ve put forth my case and reasoning on Durable being one company/two related companies as the simplest explanation under Occam’s razor. Readers may make their own conclusions. Show me actual facts like news articles or companies’ claims to change my mind.
Google AI is available at your fingertip. You may verify everything I say to convert opinions to facts. I’m not using some personal dictionary and definitions outside of the norm.
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jeo
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“And the answer is yes,…”
Not “potentially”, “possibly”, “maybe” or “in my opinion”
You said because we are confused about those labels that people back in the day were also confused. That was your reasoning which is a wild assumption. And it’s worded as a statement, not an opinion.
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A statement can be an opinion. “In my opinion” is unnecessary to insert most of the time. Almost everything I say is (and I do also take almost everything people say as) an opinion. I don’t need to say “in my opinion” all the time, unless I want to highlight to the readers that they may and should consider a different, second opinion.
“Potentially”, “possibly”, and “maybe” are ways of hedging, not necessarily indicative of an opinion.
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tmitchell59
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Durable was a company in Canada, that is a fact supported with information above. They also appear to be a significant maker with a long history in Canada.
Where is any evidence that there was a separate USA Durable?
It is my opinion there was never a USA Durable and all of their jackets, MC and otherwise were made in Canada.
Where is any evidence that there was a separate USA Durable?
It is my opinion there was never a USA Durable and all of their jackets, MC and otherwise were made in Canada.
jeo
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This is what Himel was talking about. One label has the manufacturer and one doesn’t which usually means that they licensed their trademark to other manufacturers.
jeo
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And the mystery continues…
Great work @Biff42 on pulling all this up. It’s another thread to pull at. Now if we can find more info on Durable Associated Companies Ltd’s subsidiary Durable Leather Products, maybe we can connect the dots.
No evidence, just common sense.
Here are my thoughts on the Durable brand.
If Durable was a Canadian company, I don’t think the jackets were made in Canada. Why? Well if they were made in Canada by a Canadian company it’s safe to assume that the jackets were also sold in Canada as they are extremely popular (even before the Brando effect) and well made jackets, yet no one has ever seen a Durable with Euro/Canadian hardware or different labeling. There’s also no other example of Canadian made jackets with American hardware. This is why I don’t buy that they were made in Canada but they used American hardware for American markets.
If they were Canadian the only thing that makes sense to me is that they licensed their name to American manufacturers. This is why you see many different details throughout the various Durable models.
Another theory that would make sense to me is that family members of the Durable of Canada company expanded south into the US and either opened manufacturing facilities OR they were only a brand name and used various different manufacturers in the US.
I’d be open to both theories but either way I definitely don’t think that they were made in Canada.
I used to think the Durable jackets with the different manufacturer labels (Knopf, American Sportswear etc…) proved that there were different US manufacturers, but now that I own the American Sportswear version and a friend owns the Knopf version I can confidently say they were just copies as details and fit don’t match up.
I still think the way this mystery will get solved is when a jacket pops up that has a manufacturers label and also the “code 33” tag.
Great work @Biff42 on pulling all this up. It’s another thread to pull at. Now if we can find more info on Durable Associated Companies Ltd’s subsidiary Durable Leather Products, maybe we can connect the dots.
No evidence, just common sense.
Here are my thoughts on the Durable brand.
If Durable was a Canadian company, I don’t think the jackets were made in Canada. Why? Well if they were made in Canada by a Canadian company it’s safe to assume that the jackets were also sold in Canada as they are extremely popular (even before the Brando effect) and well made jackets, yet no one has ever seen a Durable with Euro/Canadian hardware or different labeling. There’s also no other example of Canadian made jackets with American hardware. This is why I don’t buy that they were made in Canada but they used American hardware for American markets.
If they were Canadian the only thing that makes sense to me is that they licensed their name to American manufacturers. This is why you see many different details throughout the various Durable models.
Another theory that would make sense to me is that family members of the Durable of Canada company expanded south into the US and either opened manufacturing facilities OR they were only a brand name and used various different manufacturers in the US.
I’d be open to both theories but either way I definitely don’t think that they were made in Canada.
I used to think the Durable jackets with the different manufacturer labels (Knopf, American Sportswear etc…) proved that there were different US manufacturers, but now that I own the American Sportswear version and a friend owns the Knopf version I can confidently say they were just copies as details and fit don’t match up.
I still think the way this mystery will get solved is when a jacket pops up that has a manufacturers label and also the “code 33” tag.
jeo
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Is it Durable Associated Companies Ltd or Du-Val Associated Companies Ltd that is the larger umbrella company?
Based on the one ad you posted it seems “Durable Leather Products” falls under the Durable Associated Companies Ltd structure and so does Du-Val.
But then Du-Val is on the Durable of Canada label suggesting that’s the manufacturer and not “Durable Leather Products”
Perhaps try and search for Du-Val?
Lack of evidence isn’t evidence of none. It’s a common fallacy that people treat as such, as if that would prove their elaborate theories. Simplest explanation, unless and until proven otherwise, is usually correct per Occam.
Take Filson Red Label, for example. It’s made for the JP market and isn’t commonly found in the US. It exists but very rarely. Along the same line, why would a Durable leather jacket made for the US market, with US hardware and US design, be found in Canada and survived the test of time?
Take Filson Red Label, for example. It’s made for the JP market and isn’t commonly found in the US. It exists but very rarely. Along the same line, why would a Durable leather jacket made for the US market, with US hardware and US design, be found in Canada and survived the test of time?
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ABCD
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May 28 1947 Le Droit newspaper clipping
March 22 1947
March 22 1947
ABCD
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We need to find a copy or get access to Esquire's Apparel Art Volume 22
I looked through pages 34 of Esquire’s 1952 monthly issues, which are available online. No Durable was mentioned. Prob a different magazine than the one online.
I have no dog in this fight. I don’t own a Durable jacket nor care where it was made, whether Durable was one or two unrelated companies. I don’t wake up every morning looking to argue with internet strangers. Arguments seem to have a way to find me lately. I didn’t concede or acquiesce, but you can chalk it up as no eff given.
I have no dog in this fight. I don’t own a Durable jacket nor care where it was made, whether Durable was one or two unrelated companies. I don’t wake up every morning looking to argue with internet strangers. Arguments seem to have a way to find me lately. I didn’t concede or acquiesce, but you can chalk it up as no eff given.
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Biff42
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Thats a good lead right there.
ABCD
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Link: https://classic.esquire.com/issue/19520101/print
If you change YYYYMM01, you can read the monthly issues online.
Biff42
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It's separate from Esquire and morphed into GQ. I'm going to leverage my daughter's .edu email to get into some of the databases that might contain what we're looking for the next time she comes home from school.
Biff42
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A few more labels for the archive.
