Tie identification help?

[billyspew]

Been trying to work out the kind of tie my Great Grandfather is wearing in a picture I have of him, the best I can get to is that it's a kind of cravat tied as a tie?

Can anyone help identify and maybe point me towards somewhere I could get one?

Here's the picture...

Thanks,

Bill

 

[Shangas]

Hi Bill.

G/grandfather looks like a handsome old fellow. I think it's interesting how he's done up his pocketwatch chain like that.

With that number of creases in it, I doubt that's a conventional necktie, but it could all be in the knot.

I'd say it's a cravat done up as a tie, and folded in a special way to give it that number of...I think I count seven creases...in the top of the tie. A regular necktie wouldn't have enough fabric to produce a nice, fan-like crease like that.

 

[billyspew]

Hi Bill.

G/grandfather looks like a handsome old fellow. I think it's interesting how he's done up his pocketwatch chain like that.

With that number of creases in it, I doubt that's a conventional necktie, but it could all be in the knot.

I'd say it's a cravat done up as a tie, and folded in a special way to give it that number of...I think I count seven creases...in the top of the tie. A regular necktie wouldn't have enough fabric to produce a nice, fan-like crease like that.

Thanks for the kind comments Shangas.

That was certainly my initial thoughts too, I doubt that someone would have the time to spend get it that symmetrical, so it must be sewn in.

If it helps anyone identify, based on his age in the picture I would estimate that the picture must be in the first 30 years of the 20th Century.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[Widebrim]

Well, if it were a Regency-era tie, I'd say that your great-grandfather definitely could have spent the time necessary to crease it. In this case, though, I'd say it's simply a pleated tie, the more "modern" version of which would be these:

 

[Marc Chevalier]

This is a very short pre-tied necktie. Funny coincidence: I saw one just like it at the Vintage Fashion Expo in Santa Monica, California, this weekend. If I'd seen your post earlier, I would have gotten it for you. Alas, it got sold before the end of the show.


These ties --which date back to the 1880s-1900s-- were made of silk, usually satin, and were extremely short. (High-buttoning waistcoats covered the ties' short ends.) The pre-tied "knot" was silk wrapped around molded cardboard; the thin tip of the tie was also wrapped around a short strip of cardboard. You wrapped the thin band of the tie around your neck, and slipped the cardboarded tip down the opening at the top right side of the knot.


Except for the cardboard, the mechanics are similar to those found on 1930s pre-tied ties.

 

[billyspew]

Marc,

Thank you very much for the information, I should have known it would be you who turned out to have the answer. I will be keeping an eye out for one, but if you do see one, please keep me in mind!
I might see if I can create one myself in the interim.

Regards,

Bill