Tragic dimensions to what we do?

[Fletch]

We deal with old, lost things. Where you find them you will typically find lost people - those who are withdrawn or limited or broken somehow. So we have to deal at some point with lost people, and the possibility that we might become lost ourselves.

I more or less gave up serious 78 record collecting – which I loved – because I came to realize it was turning me into a type. Most all my friends were collectors - and that meant 100 per cent male, usually with few outside interests, minimal education or social graces, thankless jobs and often distinctly unhappy lives. The exceptions were typically gay men who linked the music to the camp values of show business. Not a lost group exactly, but not my group.

I managed to avoid a few of the collector categories, but the pull was strong and it seemed natural. This vibrant and colorful music was better than real life for these guys. It worked best if it was a total, consuming obsession - something that could block out everything else.

I began to wonder if that was the price of having this music in my life - that I was going to waste years, like an addict or something, and stunt my growth (emotionally and psychically). Life isn't fair, after all, and if you want something different from other people it is often pointedly unfair.

Who else here thinks their passions might have limited them somehow - that there might be a cost you didn't expect, that you weren't prepared to pay? That what you were after was a world, and there might not be a place for you in it?

 

[Geesie]

I think this is a risk that we all run when we get interested in anything with people who are REALLY interested in it. These days, thanks to the internet, anything and everything that can be collected or studied for minutiae has rabid and frankly bizarre people into it.

As you said, "100 per cent male, usually with few outside interests, minimal education or social graces, thankless jobs and often distinctly unhappy lives."

Whether it's Star Trek fans or 78 collectors, there is bound to be a group of fanatics who make up for lack of social graces (and self esteem) by trying to be the "ultimate expert" on some obscure thing.

The upside is that this means that there is a good knowledge base out there for a lot of interests. The downside is that these people tend to drive prices up and casual fans away.

 

[J.J. Gittes]

Sometimes I think about the money I've spent with collecting and time used. I had come to the realization that it is an escape, collecting and tinkering with old objects, just get lost in it and forget whats going on, sometimes. I don't do it to escape from a bad social life, or trying to make up for something. I have many friends, go to social events, and I integrate them together if possible and manage my time. I don't find my old items such as typewriters, clothing and radios better than life, just an addition, interest and hobby. I have thought about what your getting to Fletch, but then I just stop and think, 'Am I getting too into a hobby, wasting my life away and compensating, am I paying an soon un-invisible price?' Either it being the money, time, or compensation.

 

[bobalooba]

Honestly I've never had that problem, my interests seem to change frequently enough that I'm never really set into a mold, if you will. This unfortunately means I have a lot of poor pieces from a lot of different interests because I know myself and never waste too much when first starting a new thing. The only thing I have ever been all consumed by is a love of music, I end up buying posters, cd's, books, shirts etc.
I just started working (It's not that I was a bum, I'm just sixteen) and spent 650 dollars on CD's and two books, one about The Clash and one about Warren Zevon. I know that's a whole lot and I could have bought that magnoli suit I've wanted but I don't intend to do that all the time. My only rationalization is that being a teen I don't have to pay for myself and this is the only time I'll ever be able to do something like this. Should I continue though I think I'll try to get an intervention.

 

["Skeet" McD]

Anything can be abused....and this is no exception

Dear Fletch,
Your post is typically thought-provoking and well crafted. I applaud your self-awareness and am sure you made the right decision for yourself...but secretly hope you haven't cut off, or diminished, something that obviously meant, and means, a great deal to you.

It may be my Roman Catholicism....(theologically, we don't think of "sin" as something completely different from "virtue"; sins are perversions of a virtue: they are, in fact, the same thing. Hate is love...just hideously perverted love. There's nothing wrong with alcohol or food in themselves, nor with enjoyment of them...but there is a great deal wrong with alcoholism or gluttony....etc., etc. To this way of thinking, ANYTHING can be perverted into a sin....and the more deeply that thing speaks to us, the greater its power for good....or evil. Think of the many horrors that have been perpetrated in the name of religion, including, sadly, my own Catholic religion...just as a start.

There's no doubt that collecting CAN be twisted into something dark; something which collects YOU...rather than the other way around. But I very strongly feel that there's nothing in the thing itself which conduces to that. You can find people of the sort you describe so well in any walk of life, or interested in any thing.

I do think that there is at least one thing specific to those of us who collect the things of the past: to put it bluntly, we are surrounded by things that were made, and bought, and lived with by people who are now...quite dead. And most of the things we possess now will outlive us...and go on to belong to someone else. The thoughtful person cannot help but conclude that WE are the transient elements. I suppose this could be morbid for some: I have found it a salutary reminder of my own mortality, that each day should be enjoyed to the fullest, and a warning not to mistake my things for my life.

Respectfully,
"Skeet"

 

[reetpleat]

Interesting. While I do not know if I would call myself a collector or wearer. Both I guess. When I lived in Seattle before moving to SF, I collected to wear, but was the only guy I knew who dressed 40s. I went out with friends, whatever, and never gave it much thought.

When I discovered others like me in SF, I moved there. I had always wanted to live there, and was planning on it, then discovered the others. I spent five years enmeshed in the clothes, then the dance scene.

Sometimes I regret being so into it, even though it was very social, got me out five or six nights a week, and gave me plenty of opportunity to make friends and meet women. But I think I could have gotten so much more had I had a broader social circle and done more different things in that wonderful city.

Now that I am back in Settle, i collect as a hobby, but rarely wear. I am starting to more lately. But my collecting is hardly a risk to my social life or pocketbook.

So, even though I was in a scene that was very social and fin, even that kept me from other possabilities because my tastes were fairly narrow..

 

[Marc Chevalier]

This is an excellent thread. :eusa_clap

.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

I spent between 20 years old and 30 years old with one goal: completing various educational and professional certifications. I achieved what I set to do; in grand fashion!!!!!!

The price: I felt like I was socially dwarfed somehow. The level of intensity with which I needed to pursue my goal precluded most other activities.

The end result: My life today is beyond my wildest dreams.

That profession had become a hobby some time ago and that will end this year it is time to move on. I freely gave away what was freely given to me.

I am sure I missed out on a great many things, but, I would never shut the door on my past.

However, the trick for me is to "want what I have, not, have what I want" within reason of course. The journey has been wonderful, challenging and rewarding. I am enriched as a person because of it.

Fletch you appear to be a great guy. Sounds like you are growing and this is simply a right of passage.

 

[Flitcraft]

Fletch you appear to be a great guy. Sounds like you are growing and this is simply a right of passage.

__________________


Couldn't have put it better!

 

[flat-top]

Great subject, and one that actually relates to my life at the moment.
I'm getting ready to leave for Las Vegas in a couple of hours, to attend the Viva Las Vegas weekender, which is a Rockabilly music and lifestyle festival.
My wife is not joining me( she has zero interest), and is NOT happy that I am going.
The problem is, I can't NOT go. I'm so wrapped up in the music, and the shopping (you wouldn't believe the shopping) and the STUFF that the thought of missing it makes me sick.
I have a regular life, and my interests usually don't get in the way of it, but my leaving today is definitely causing some issues.

 

[scotrace]

This is an excellent thread. :eusa_clap

.

It is indeed! Excellent take on the whole collecting experience.

 

[Sertsa]

There's a difference between a hobby, or even interest, and an obsession. For some the lines become blurred, and it's easy to drift into the obsession side. In that respect, every collecting hobby has people who have drifted across that line, which can get dangerous, as they have it define their lives. I think at its worst extremes, people can get so involved that they alienate even those who share a similar interest ("What! You bought a 78 that was obviously cut on a Willicut BC2932? What a rube!" Before anyone goes looking for a Willicut BC2932, I just made it up).

I think you're right in that these people may be looking to fill a void and, in doing so, make the void even deeper.

I don't think you should let those people keep you from pursuing an interest, however. Rather, use them to remember the importance of an interest become an aspect of your life, not the defining characteristic.

Most of my family are collectors, and they can tend to get too occupied, but thankfully they haven't gone that far. I guess that's why I've avoided being considering myself a collector of anything, although I have a lot of books and some other things.

 

[Feraud]

I wouldn't classify extreme interest in a hobby as dysfunctional or socially inept any more than I would call someone with a passing interest a poseur.

I appreciate those lone obsessive people who put themselves on the fringe of "normal" society to give us what we have today. How much music would have been lost forever had not some people went knocking on doors looking for blues records?
The same goes for art, medical, or any other types of resarch.

Those people have made it easy for me today to log onto my computer and listen to Tommy Johnson or ask, "How old is this fedora?".

 

[celtic]

[QUOTE="Skeet" McD]Dear Fletch,
[snip]It may be my Roman Catholicism....(theologically, we don't think of "sin" as something completely different from "virtue"; sins are perversions of a virtue: they are, in fact, the same thing. Hate is love...just hideously perverted love. There's nothing wrong with alcohol or food in themselves, nor with enjoyment of them...but there is a great deal wrong with alcoholism or gluttony....etc., etc. To this way of thinking, ANYTHING can be perverted into a sin....and the more deeply that thing speaks to us, the greater its power for good....or evil. Think of the many horrors that have been perpetrated in the name of religion, including, sadly, my own Catholic religion...just as a start.[snip]
"Skeet"[/QUOTE]

I started this thread thinking, "that's not me...even my motorcycling obsession isn't THAT bad...."

That is until I got to Skeet's post and remembered this is one of the reasons I quit drinking. It became my social life, my life, my money, my marriage, way too many of my thoughts, etc...it was sucking everything out of me that was good and didn't give much back.

So while I do create small obsessions, I try not to let them get too big...I like to try a lot of things and not get too bogged down by one.

 

[Sertsa]

I wouldn't classify extreme interest in a hobby as dysfunctional or socially inept any more than I would call someone with a passing interest a poseur.

I appreciate those lone obsessive people who put themselves on the fringe of "normal" society to give us what we have today. How much music would have been lost forever had not some people went knocking on doors looking for blues records?
The same goes for art, medical, or any other types of resarch.

Those people have made it easy for me today to log onto my computer and listen to Tommy Johnson or ask, "How old is this fedora?".

Maybe my post was misinterpreted or I wasn't clear. I agree that having an extreme interest in something and building knowledge and expertise doesn't mean that person is dysfunctional. Similarly, a vast amount of knowledge has been creative by those people. However, there is a segment that is obsessed to the point of dysfunction and, in my observation, those people are less likely to be a helpful source of information and tend to be snobbish.

 

[celtic]

Oh, and how many of you are like me and thought instantly of "Ghost World" and "American Splendor" when reading the original post?

 

[John in Covina]

Must Haves?

Life changes your focus, people and things will drift in and out of your life.
Hobbies are meant to be enjoyed and even shared with others.

Obsessions are often substitutes for lacking qualities. One of the great comments came from John Candy as he played the coach of the Jamaican Bobsled team. AS one of the members complained about the chances of not winning a medal, Candy as the coach said: "If you believe you are nothing without it, you are going to find you are still nothing with it."

It is a trap as old as lust and envy to say to oneself: "I'll really be happy when I have X." Usually that happiness is very fleeting and we quickly move on to another must have. To say: "I'll be happy when I have X," is to block happiness in the now.

 

[Fletch]

Oh, and how many of you are like me and thought instantly of "Ghost World" and "American Splendor" when reading the original post?

I thought of them while WRITING it. Crumb, Pekar, Zwigoff and such men own this dimension of life for me. They dominate it as Leonardo did the Renaissance.

Then again, maybe it's because I fear becoming like them and their characters. We're often dominated by what we fear. I think because we suspect there may be no negotiating with it. Package deal, if a then b, no x without y. We have to ake choices in life, and maybe that's the nature of some of those choices.

this is one of the reasons I quit drinking. It became my social life, my life, my money, my marriage, way too many of my thoughts, etc...it was sucking everything out of me that was good and didn't give much back.

That can happen. You made the right choice.

It can also be true, however, that a passion that gives you plenty back - art, music, etc. - can suck everything else out of you. That's the dilemma I find so fascinating.

New York is full of these people. I think that's one reason I left. I was there 18 years, and that's where my record collecting happened. There are whole genres of culture that mean nothing outside New York, and most of them are the territory of people who are deeply, fascinatingly, frighteningly one-dimensional.

 

[Undertow]

I appreciate those lone obsessive people who put themselves on the fringe of "normal" society to give us what we have today. How much music would have been lost forever had not some people went knocking on doors looking for blues records?
The same goes for art, medical, or any other types of resarch.

I think this is probably the most interesting line in this thread thus far; it really puts alot into perspective.

Especially with access to the internet, we currently have the luxury of accessing an almost limitless supply of knowledge on and almost infinite list of categories.

I also agree that there may come a point when some people, maybe some of us included, become the collected, and that is a bad thing. However, I do appreciate their efforts!

 

[Feraud]

Maybe my post was misinterpreted or I wasn't clear. I agree that having an extreme interest in something and building knowledge and expertise doesn't mean that person is dysfunctional. Similarly, a vast amount of knowledge has been creative by those people. However, there is a segment that is obsessed to the point of dysfunction and, in my observation, those people are less likely to be a helpful source of information and tend to be snobbish.

I wasn't responding to you post but stating my own position on the topic. There is no right or wrong here but different sentiments.

New York is full of these people. I think that's one reason I left. I was there 18 years, and that's where my record collecting happened. There are whole genres of culture that mean nothing outside New York, and most of them are the territory of people who are deeply, fascinatingly, frighteningly one-dimensional.

This can be a pitfall as observed in any hobby or profession. How many families do not see the bread winners due to long work hours?

I think it is a good thing when a person can stand back and evaluate their level of interest in a given subject. You can then choose to continue or abandon the quest.