Underwelt

[Matt Deckard]

This thread is for JamesPowers and the rest of you to show your underwelt brims.
Its the brim style I see the least of and am really curious about.
I have seen alot of Cavanagh, raw, bound and overwelt edges, (and one pressed... it's wierd) yet still only 2 underwelts and they are both modern.

 

[jamespowers]

Geez, it would be the day where I wear my raw edged Borsalino to work. I will see what I can do when I get home.

Regards,

J

 

[Brad Bowers]

I've got an underwelt I could show, but it's modern as well.

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

This isn't one of mine but I found this picture of a good example of an underwelt Stetson. What do you think?

Regards to all,

J

 

[Matt Deckard]

yup, that's an underwelt.
A pretty new one.
How old is yours?

 

[jamespowers]

The Richman Brothers is probably from the 40s and the Stetson may be a bit older. I am not sure. I finally found someone with a camera at work so I will send pictures tomorrow.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Andykev]

I've been edged out

In my limited vintage experience, MOST underwelts are sewn. The "Cavanagh Edge" which was patented, is an overwelt.

The Cavanagh has the felt folded over and felted into the hat body.

I have only two hats with this. Most of mine are bound edge. But the Cavanagh Edge is spectacular. I equate it to the back weave of the finest Montecristi straw's.

The Cavanagh edge was extremely hard to do....if not perfect, the hat body was cut and a "regular edge" was applied. (No manufacturer would throw away good hat bodies if they could be re-worked).

That is why the "Cavanagh Edge" was more expensive.....labor.

 

[jamespowers]

Yep, and there were lots of ways to mess up a Cavanagh body. The edge could have been unevenly creased, the brim could have been too short, stitches could be left in by accident or the brim could have been different lengths around the body. All of this would have meant that the body had to be reworked for another style.
I agree labor and technically challenging.
An under welt was simple by comparison. You just fold it under and sew it down.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Andykev]

No stitches

Originally posted by jamespowers
the brim could have been too short, stitches could be left in by

I was under the impression the Cavanagh edge was FELTED in using a ZINC ring of the approproate size, the felt being folded over and then worked into the hat body. There was no stitching.

 

[jamespowers]

Hmm, I never heard of that method of creating a Cavanagh edge. Check out the bottom of page 39 in Hat Talk. I think that will give you an idea of how they were created as described by Robert Doran of Doran Brothers---a hat making equipment firm .

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

Ok, I tried to get my hands on a digital camera to no avail so I set it on the scanner and scanned the underwelt of the Royal Stetson. I wish I had thought of this before. The picture isn't that great but it gives you an idea of the underwelt. Notice the stitching that goes all the way around before the underwelt then the stitching that holds the underwelt down. The first stitching establishes the first crease of the brim so that from the top the edge looks like a Cavanagh edge. The stitching is the same color as the felt so it is barely noticable.
I hope the image is good enough to show this.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Matt Deckard]

I can tell what it is.

You can see how tight the stitches are.

Late forties early fifties if that is plastic I see in the crown.

I remember the days when I used to scan and post.
I love my digital camera.... so easy to use.

Interesting hat and it bein an earlier underwelt, a first for my eyes.

 

[jamespowers]

Yep, that is plastic in the liner. I like it even though the brim is only about 2 1/4". The crown is about 5". It is an Extra Long Oval so it fits pretty well. Art will probably remember this one fairly well because it was the posterboy for taper. LOL

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

Ok, I got the digital camera and snapped a few shots of the Richman Brothers underwelt. This is the first one showing the underside of the hat.

 

[jamespowers]

This is a close up of the underwelt. It has the same double circumference stitch---all the way around ahead of the welt and then the welt is stitched down. I hope you can see the double stitching.

 

[jamespowers]

Lastly, just a shot of the hat itself.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Matt Deckard]

The close up was a bit blury, though I could tell what it was.

Congratulations on your camera