Updated with pictures - 1931+ Dobbs Fedora

[JeffB]

I am looking at buying a 1931 Dobbs Fifth Avenue Fedora. How can I tell what type of felt it is made from? How can I tell what model it is?

Jeff

 

[feltfan]

Actually, all you know is that it was made some time
after 1931, since the seller got the date off a patent.

The answers to your questions are, you can't know
what the felt is made of (though best guess would
be a beaver/rabbit mix) and you can't know the model
unless those facts are clearly stated on the sweatband
or in some other location on the hat. It is exceedingly
rare to find indication of the felt except in models sold
that way ("Clear Beaver") and even those are subject
to controversy. Only a very few vintage model names
are prominent- Open Road, Stratoliner, and perhaps from
the 50s-70s, Borsalino styles like "Pocket Hat" or "Como".

Are you familiar enough with Dobbs hat model names of
the 1930s and 1940s that the name would mean anything?
If so, please do share.

I think the real questions you should be asking are,
what size is it? and what hallmarks should I look for
in evaluating a quality vintage hat? For the first question,
I'd ask the seller to look under the leather sweatband
and find the size tag. For the second, I'd go back and
read the sticky posts and old posts on vintage Dobbs hats
and Guild Edge.

And if it is any good (and it appears to be) I'd recommend
against posting it here before the auction is over- that tends
to raise the price considerably due to inviting competition.

Hope this helps.

 

[Brad Bowers]

A great find!

Very nice! The hat definitely dates between 1931 and 1936. Probably closer to 1936 than 1931, judging from the brim and ribbon.

It is going to be made of hare/rabbit fur (with possibly a little bit of beaver thrown in).


Most model names were not printed anywhere in the hat at this time, but I have not seen that Guild logo before, so there's a chance it may be the model name. I wonder if that's where the Guild Edge name eventually came from?

Let us know if you get it.

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

Very nice! The hat definitely dates between 1931 and 1936. Probably closer to 1936 than 1931, judging from the brim and ribbon.

It is going to be made of hare/rabbit fur (with possibly a little bit of beaver thrown in).


Most model names were not printed anywhere in the hat at this time, but I have not seen that Guild logo before, so there's a chance it may be the model name. I wonder if that's where the Guild Edge name eventually came from?

Let us know if you get it.

Brad

That is where the Guild Edge came from.
I believe that is an example of one right there. Didn't Cavanagh Dobbs come into being in 1931? If so, then it is surely after that date as Dobbs didn't have to pay for using the patented Cavanagh Edge process.
I would have to see the liner logo to date the hat more accurately but you could be right about later 30s there Brad. :cheers1:

 

[JeffB]

Thanks for the info.

 

[Brad Bowers]

That is where the Guild Edge came from.

Makes sense to me, but Dobbs did not begin using the term "Guild Edge" until 1944, so there is still 10-12 years to account for.

I believe that is an example of one right there. Didn't Cavanagh Dobbs come into being in 1931? If so, then it is surely after that date as Dobbs didn't have to pay for using the patented Cavanagh Edge process.

Cavanagh-Dobbs, Inc. was formed in 1928, but I doubt Dobbs ever had to pay to use the process, since it was always a subsidiary of Crofut & Knapp, assignee of the patent.

I would have to see the liner logo to date the hat more accurately but you could be right about later 30s there Brad. :cheers1:

I know I'm right.lol In any case, it's not later than 1936, and it's still a fine hat.

The price of this one is going to skyrocket. Too bad I don't have the money for it, as my size or not, it would fit nicely into my Cavanagh Edge history collection.

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

Thanks for the info.

I wasn't quite done. I was just getting a few things together.
Here is a 1936 Doobs ad that might shed some light on the Guild Edge thing:

The Guild Edge was Available in 1936 but it cost less than the Cavanagh Edge for some reason. [huh]
Her is an ad for the 1935 Dobbs Gamebird. This hat has the model name inside the hat on the sweatband and on the liner:

You would be lucky to find something this early with such model designation.

 

[jamespowers]

Makes sense to me, but Dobbs did not begin using the term "Guild Edge" until 1944, so there is still 10-12 years to account for.

Refer to the above 1936 ad.

Cavanagh-Dobbs, Inc. was formed in 1928, but I doubt Dobbs ever had to pay to use the process, since it was always a subsidiary of Crofut & Knapp, assignee of the patent.

The probably did in one of those intercompany take from one pocket and put it in another for record keeping scenarios.

I know I'm right.lol In any case, it's not later than 1936, and it's still a fine hat.

The price of this one is going to skyrocket. Too bad I don't have the money for it, as my size or not, it would fit nicely into my Cavanagh Edge history collection.

Brad

I have a few hats that don't fit for the same reason. [huh]

 

[Brad Bowers]

Here is a 1936 Dobbs ad that might shed some light on the Guild Edge thing:

The Guild Edge was Available in 1936 but it cost less than the Cavanagh Edge for some reason. [huh]

I have this same jpg. It reads "Gilt Edge," but it might factor into the evolution. Don't know what it is, exactly, though it might refer to the first patent process. That's one of the mysteries yet to solve!

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

I have this same jpg. It looks like it reads "Gilt Edge." It might factor into the evolution. Don't know what it is, exactly, though it might refer to the first patent process. That's one of the mysteries yet to solve!

Brad

You might be right. I wonder what the original source of the ad is. The picture is not clear that is for sure.
By 1947 we can be sure:

Then again they did make this in 1940:

 

[Brad Bowers]

You might be right. I wonder what the original source of the ad is. The picture is not clear that is for sure.

I'd like to know, too. I've been buying up ads for my Cavanagh research, but haven't come across this one again.

Back to the dating on this hat: I just checked my Dobbs ads, and found that they were referring to it as a Cavanagh Edge by 1934, which seems to narrow the window on this hat even more.

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

I'd like to know, too. I've been buying up ads for my Cavanagh research, but haven't come across this one again.

Back to the dating on this hat: I just checked my Dobbs ads, and found that they were referring to it as a Cavanagh Edge by 1934, which seems to narrow the window on this hat even more.

Brad

Yes, the window is pretty small. Surely after 1934 then and more than likely after 1936.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Yes, the window is pretty small. Surely after 1934 then and more than likely after 1936.

On the other hand, I turned out to be completely wrong. Lookee what I found, an ad for a Dobbs Guild with "felted welt edge" from March 1940.

Gee, kids, I learned a valuable lesson today! This nomenclature business just gets murkier all the time.

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

On the other hand, I turned out to be completely wrong. Lookee what I found, an ad for a Dobbs Guild with "felted welt edge" from March 1940.

Gee, kids, I learned a valuable lesson today! This nomenclature business just gets murkier all the time.

Brad

See?
Thanks. You helped me date this baby more definitively:

 

[Brad Bowers]

See?
Thanks. You helped me date this baby more definitively:

Glad I could help.

Brad

 

[feltfan]

Man, I hope JeffB was prepared to unleash the
Bowers/Powers firestorm. JP, that kid must be
sleeping the night at last...

 

[JeffB]

Man, I hope JeffB was prepared to unleash the
Bowers/Powers firestorm. JP, that kid must be
sleeping the night at last...

I had no idea, but I really appreciate the passion that you guys have for these hats.

 

[jamespowers]

Man, I hope JeffB was prepared to unleash the
Bowers/Powers firestorm. JP, that kid must be
sleeping the night at last...

Define "the night." If that means from about 9pm to 5am, then, ok, the night. If it means until I actually want to get up then no, not the night.

 

[jamespowers]

I had no idea, but I really appreciate the passion that you guys have for these hats.

That's what we are here for. I think Brad has a disertation on the subject. I am merely a layman.

 

[JeffB]

I just won this hat and paid under $40 for it after shipping. Here are some more pictures. Let me know what you think. I'll make a new post once I get it and take some more pictures.