YELLOW SPEEDMAN 1970s ENGLISH BIKE JACKET & REFURB AND RELINING TIPS

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by yellowfever, Apr 22, 2021.

  1. yellowfever

    yellowfever One of the Regulars

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    1/ INTRO

    So I posted a couple of pictures of this jacket on the “what jacket are you wearing today” thread a little while back and it seemed to spark a fair bit of interest. I confess I was slightly surprised as, although I personally love this jacket, I thought the rather full-on yellow colour and well used appearance may be a rather niche taste. I briefly followed up in that thread with more info on the jacket. But I thought a longer dedicated post on it may be of interest to some of you plus it would also give me a chance to pass on my tips on the refurb work in case it’s useful to others. In my long career as a TFL lurker I’ve benefited immensely from reading tips from other TFL members (many of which I used in this refurb project) so this is a chance to put something back!.

    Be warned tho’ - it’s consequently a long post including lots of (non-expert) thoughts on the pros and cons of various lining material options.

    THE JACKET

    As I noted in the other thread, the jacket is a little seen Speedman leathers/Speedman motorcycle clothing jacket, probably from mid to late 1970’s (or possibly early 1980’s) in the ultra rare yellow. Not much I can find on Speedman, but I think they were a London based shop that got stuff made for them by Highwayman.

    “01” London phone number prefix on some of their labels suggests that - at most - they existed from 1966 - 1990, but my guess is they were only around in 1970s/1980s. Some jackets have a “made especially for Speedman by Highwayman leathers” label though this example does not. It does however look identical to the Ricarde Deluxe model made by Highwayman and features the exact same mix of zips (Clix main, plus lighting and opti pocket and sleeve zips). Other UK motorbike leather companies of the era had similar models. For instance, TT leathers and MW leathers made essentially the same jacket, Interstate had one with only small differences like double buckles and more extensive padding, whilst the lancer front version of Lewis Leathers Phantom jacket looks quite similar too.

    Based on the zips, colour, design and label I’d guess mid/late 1970’s or possibly early 1980’s. Whilst I wouldn’t ride in this jacket today (no proper armour) it’s far tougher and better made than the second hand Mascot bike jacket I started riding in years ago. This Speedman really is a proper bike jacket, if very much of its time. It weighs in at 2470g (about 5.5 lbs), not that far shy of the 3kg (without their armour fitted) of my current super tough and heavyweight Vanson and BKS riding jackets.

    It features (originally - lining and male side of zip replaced since, see below for more on that process):

    Lancer front with large number 10 Clix zip closure

    Mandarin collar with two position popper closure

    Double leather at shoulders and elbows with diamond pattern padding

    Zip close sleeves with lightening zips

    Two hand-warmer slanted zip pockets with ball and chain (opti?) zips

    One vertical inside pocket with lightening zip closure

    Two silver waist buckles to adjust hem on side/back

    Made of thick heavy but supple cow leather

    Burgundy rayon sleeve lining

    Burgundy cotton warm quilted body lining

    About 2.5kg (5.5 lbs) weight

    And

    The ultra rare yellow leather!

    Similar jackets from UK makers of this era were also available in black, blue, red, brown and grey (I’d say roughly in that order from most common to rarest. - browns and greys maybe about as rare as yellow from the very few I’ve ever seen come up for sale).

    Given how few you see, yellow was I guess not so popular a colour choice. Though it’s also possible that as they show the dirt more (as my example demonstrated when I first got it!) they maybe just get binned more frequently as they look beyond redemption... which would be a shame as they can be brought back to useable life with some care and effort.

    The pattern is pretty snug in the body with tight (when zipped up) sleeve cuffs, but with good movement especially in the upper arms and shoulders as is usual for a proper bike jacket. This is no doubt aided by lots of breaking in of course - it’s an old and well used jacket. The sleeves are quite long to allow for them riding up when on a bike reaching for the bars. There’s no belt or buckles on the front of the jacket which is typical of English bike jacket styles - we don’t want anything to scratch our petrol tanks when leaning forward in classic cafe racer style! Despite not having a dipped rear panel, the jacket is also - again as is often a typical English motorbike jacket feature - a bit longer than USA motorbike jackets, not just at the back, but also at the front. Not sure why this is, maybe it stems from a UK tradition of much longer biker jackets (like Barbour style ones) and the often inclement UK weather, in contrast to USA taking inspiration from traditionally very short flat track style jackets and, in some states at least, a rather drier and warmer climate. Who knows? Not me, just my speculation! But it’s also a difference seen on old Police motorcycle jackets. USA CHP style ones seem typically short in the body, even if later ones did at least dip down at the back, whilst until the 1990s, UK police riders wore longer four pocket jackets long both front and back and indeed reaching to the upper thigh at the front.

    THE ISSUES NEEDING ATTENTION

    The jacket was a fixer-upper when I got it, including a not properly disclosed zip issue and it was maybe not as cheap as it should have been given the work needed. But given the rarity especially in this colour if you want one and manage to find one in your size, you’ve got to hold your nose and get it when you see it... and console yourself that if you do find one by a lesser known/heralded UK make like Speedman, it is of course still far cheaper than typical Lewis leathers prices.

    The issues included the really filthy and smelly condition (I literally had to hold my nose), wrecked sleeve linings, and damaged quilted body lining lining and a badly frayed zipper tape next to the male pin on the main zip. On the plus side the leather shell had no rips, tears, holes, flaking or cracking in the leather, the rest of the zips and the snaps were all intact and worked fine and the pocket bags were all good.

    SORTING THE SMELLS AND STAINS

    For the leather shell, I wanted to keep as much of the darker beaten up patina as possible whilst getting the most egregious dirt and stains off. So I did some careful leather cleaning with (mostly) Gliptone products to try to clean it up and get rid of the worst oil and other stains/blend them in as best as I could.

    This involved in ascending order of seriousness: wipe down with plain water rag, Gliptone liquid leather GT15 gentle cleaner, GT12 intensive cleaner, GT14 safety solvent cleaner, GT12 ink stick liquid leather and if they all failed to tackle bad stains well enough to live with then - very, very carefully in small amounts using a Q-tip! - Saphir Renomat and finally Hussard stain remover. After that you just have to accept any stains left, before you strip the leather completely!

    After this sometimes rough treatment I wiped it all down with damp cloths to get rid of any remnants of cleaners and solvents and then conditioned the leather with several thin coats of Gliptone GT11 leather conditioner leaving 24 hours between coats to let the leather absorb it. After a final buffing and barring one particularly stubborn oil stain on the front, I was pretty happy with the outcome - much less stained and dirty leather, but still plenty of cool patina left...

    The smells, however, proved more stubborn. I tried the usual tricks mentioned on TFL (thanks to all the people sharing all these great tips!) of prolonged airing outdoors, sunshine, water and white vinegar spray and several rounds of ozone machine treatment plus a whole lot of time and patience. It all helped but not enough. Even the lining replacement (see below) did not sort it, as the smells were ingrained not only in the original lining but also in the leather, especially in the padded shoulder areas.

    So in the end (post reline) I had to try the nuclear option of hand washing in the bath with lukewarm water and some detergent for delicate clothes. Amongst other things, I was worried I’d lose too much of the good patina along with the bad smells. However it survived the bath wash fine coming out still a fairly grungy-looking dirty/mustardy yellow colour as I wanted. Thankfully not going a super bright light yellow! The washing water was, however, truly disgusting so it was needed. And even so, it still took a lot more airing, vinegar spraying and ozone treatment to get it smelling neutral even after the bath hand wash! Stubborn smells indeed, but I got there in the end...

    Finally, after all that, I of course had to redo the Gliptone leather conditioning. Got to say the lovely tough leather stood up to all the stain removal and anti-smell treatment very well indeed and after conditioning the leather is still strong and supple and easy to wear despite the reasonably heavy weight. A good result!
     
    navetsea likes this.
  2. yellowfever

    yellowfever One of the Regulars

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    2/

    SORTING THE ZIPPER

    The zipper issue was also not easy to sort. After doing various research (thanks again TFL!) I reluctantly concluded the male pin tape couldn’t be satisfactorily fixed into a robust enough state to last. I like to wear my jackets, so there’s no point having one with an about to fail zipper. As I was going to have to have the lining replaced (see below) it seemed sensible to get the zip sorted at the same time for cost, logistics and repair aesthetic reasons...

    As an aside, more zip strain and potential zip failure is one downside of some typical UK bike jacket designs which, unlike many USA jackets, prefer to avoid belts and buckles at the front. Whilst this avoids potential scratching of motorbike petrol tanks, it does mean the zipper pin, box and zipper tape often have to take the strain alone, without the support of a belt. As bike jackets are meant to be tight fitting at the waist for safety in a crash and to avoid drafts when riding the strain can be considerable and even more so when leaning forward in riding stance. I wonder if this is why UK jackets seem to always go for chunky number 10 main zips? Even so, it’s good to have at least some extra support with velcro or snaps at the jacket waist, as my more modern UK 1990’s BKS riding jacket does.

    After some months of searching, getting a replacement vintage Clix main zip in OK condition proved impossible at pretty much any price. One decent alternative I nearly went with was getting a modern repro Clix from Lewis leathers (as used on their new jackets) which look OK, even if it’s not quite the same as an original. They seem to be selling NOS repro number 10 zips in various lengths for around £20 on eBay just now. But in the end I lucked out by finding out by trial and error that I could get the male half of a YKK zip on another jacket I had to zip to the female Clix half. So I ordered a zip of the correct length/tape/teeth colour from YKK (who thankfully, unlike eg RIRI, allow individual one off v low volume orders at a very reasonable price - about £5 plus postage - , if you’re prepared to be patient on delivery). This meant that only one side of the zip needed replacing and I kept the lovely original Clix slider and zip box. Function wise the YKK male half works perfectly, but, whilst it’s almost indistinguishable, if you look very closely you can tell there’s a slightly different more shiny look to the teeth of this new half and the teeth are also ever so slightly less wide on the tape. In the end it was a trade off I was happy to make to get a perfectly robust and functioning zipper whilst also keeping the nice original bits of the female half of the zip. As a bonus I also saved money on zip replacement by only needing one side done.

    RELINING - MY CRITERIA

    The original lining was a fetching burgundy coloured quilted cotton material on the body with matching burgundy viscose sleeve linings. The sleeves were however beyond repair with rips, holes and stretching out of the baggy sleeve ends. Likewise, the body lining whilst not as bad, had various holes round the hem and neck region, with stuffing starting to come out and lots of loose threads all over the quilting. It was also designed for use on a bike, so it was very warm for casual wear, limiting when I’d get to wear the jacket.

    As you’ll note from my approach with the patina and the main zip, I’m keen on originality, but not at the expense of practicality. My jackets are there to be worn. So I decided on a complete reline at the same time as the zip repair would be done.

    I also wanted to do the reline once and do it right... relines are expensive (even more so if you’ve no existing lining to use as a starting point pattern, though thankfully that was not the case here). They are also tricky to execute well from an aesthetic standpoint. So you don’t want to do them any more than you have to. Hence to future proof it, I decided I would have leather reinforcements fitted inside the sleeve ends and round the bottom of the hem - authenticity/originality be damned. Given the impossibility of matching the well used yellow leather or trying to match leather to whatever shade of reline material I went with, in the end it was easiest to simply use thin black leather for these reinforcement leather facings. The result is tough, hard wearing, doesn’t show marks and, authenticity aside, it looks OK aesthetically being pretty neutral.

    As a digression, frankly I find short jacket designs which take the lining all the way down to the edge of the bottom hem to be poorly thought out, especially if the lining material is not super robust. Putting in a hard wearing facing of corduroy, moleskin, leather/suede or some other suitable material should be a no brainer. Leather jackets are heavy and somewhat stiff. Tops of jeans and belts can be abrasive. Why design a hard wearing tough utilitarian item of clothing like a leather jacket, built to last for years, then ensure the lining will get destroyed in short order? It’s poor design which I find far more offensive than any lack of authenticity... maybe it gets manufacturers reline business, but really I’d struggle to buy a new short leather jacket that doesn’t have a proper hem protection built into the design, or at least a maker that allows this as an option when ordering. And if I’m relining an old jacket I’ll always take the chance to add reinforcement where possible if not already a feature on the design.

    With the Speedman, I’d already decided I’d take the jacket to Byson leathers in the UK for the zip and reline work (again a TFL recommend, though Gwen who does the stitching is ex of hideout leathers who I know well having used them a lot for my bike leathers over the years and whom I remain a fan of). The next question was what lining to choose. Byson had limited options in house and nothing that especially appealed, but you can send your own material to them (provided it meets their suitability requirements on type, weight and amount of material). I did a lot of research (thanks again TFL amongst other sources) on linings. Having been told by Byson the minimum weights I should be looking for and how much material would be needed I had to consider the colour, the weight and the type of material to go for.

    On colour, an obvious choice would be burgundy both to honour the original and as it is a nice complimentary colour to the yellow. But I’m also a big fan of blue and blue and yellow also go very well together. Whilst blue is not original to this particular jacket, similar jackets of the era sometimes had blue linings, so it would not be too heretical a choice. So plain burgundy or blue was the colour choice - depending on what colours I could find that meet the rest of the criteria for lining material.

    On weight and material type, my general philosophy on leather jacket linings is they should be durable, breathable, help with ease of movement and not be too warm.

    Durable is non-contentious - leather is fairly stiff and heavy as jacket materials go and itself is durable and long lasting, so linings need to be robust so they’ll last too. Even so, most linings will also need some extra help from sensible jacket design via heavy duty reinforcements in high wear areas, as I already mentioned.

    Breathable is also a no-brainer I think. Leather itself is normally at least somewhat breathable (depending on leather and tanning treatment/finish) and anyway, regardless of the leather, it’s no fun wearing a jacket with a sticky non-breathable lining, whatever the weather may be.

    Ease of movement means you shouldn’t have to wrestle to get the jacket on and off or to move your arms, so as a minimum you want nice slippy sleeve lining material.

    The ‘not too warm’ criteria may be more debatable. My reasoning is that I live in a fairly temperate climate and I can always layer to make a jacket warmer (within reason/fit) but I can’t take a too warm liner out to make a jacket cooler (unless it’s designed to be detachable and frankly I’m not a fan of that really - better just layer it’s easier/more flexible). Cooler liners means I can wear my leather jackets over more of the year making it more flexible and useful. For most casual jackets it’s the way to go I think. I do make an exception for my longer leather trench coats as these coats by their nature are really meant for winter anyway, so they should have a suitably warm lining.

    Some may also consider motorbike jackets to be an exception to ‘cooler linings are better’, given the need to combat wind chill when sat mostly still on a bike. Anyone who’s ever ridden can no doubt remember just how surprisingly cold it can get! I can see the logic of having a warmer winter only riding jacket (just as some have heavily vented summer only jackets). But a combination of cost and generally not too extreme weather variations where I live means I stick to cooler is better even for motorbike jackets. I find a combination of high quality base and mid layers (icebreakers merino wool), modern thin but wind blocking bike specific mid layers and if needed a rain over jacket is sufficient to keep warm without being too bulky. But if it’s brutal enough to need it, these days I also have an electrically heated Gillet as well which keeps me toasty warm with low bulk.
     
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  3. yellowfever

    yellowfever One of the Regulars

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    3/

    PROS AND CONS OF VARIOUS LINING MATERIALS

    So what are the lining options and the pros and cons of each? Although my criteria narrow things down from the off, I’ll cover my thoughts on a range of materials here in case it’s useful to others. Fabrics long historical development means a very confusing and sometimes contradictory set of terms describing the weight, weave and material and there are many claims as to the various materials properties... it’s not so easy to navigate. But here’s my (NON-EXPERT, THERE MAY BE MISTAKES!) summary after a lot of reading and research in case of use to others...

    First weight. Even if you agree with my philosophy and want a cooler jacket, you’re going to want a minimum weight of lining for durability reasons. Byson leathers suggested to me that I only consider 200 GLM weight material and up, though the durability can also depend on the material it’s made from and the weave too... given this I sent them samples to get their OK before buying the lining material. I also looked at various renowned new jacket companies lining offerings and what they said about them and their weights.

    Like everything fabric related, there are lots of confusing terms. GSM means grams per square metre. Not to be confused with another (more common) weight measure GLM which means grams per linear metre i.e. the weight of a 1m length of the fabric off the roll of fabric. GLM alone is not really useful. You need to know the standard width that the particular fabric roll was woven at (though it’s usually 54” or about 1.4m). For instance, 200 GLM on a 1m wide roll of fabric is the weight of a 1m x 1m piece so exactly the same weight as a 200 GSM fabric as by definition that’s a 1m x 1m piece of fabric too. But if the roll is 1.4m wide (a typical fabric roll width) and rated at the same 200 GLM then it weighs 200g for a piece 1.4m x 1m and would only be about 70% as heavyweight as a 200 GSM fabric (I.e it would be equivalent to around 140 GSM). Confused yet? If not, consider that as well of GSM and GLM you’ll also instead see fabrics quoted in ounces and feet and yards in both linear and square varieties... and that fabric shops often don’t quote or even have all the info you want on weights, widths etc and perhaps understandably are not always interested in answering queries for small orders...

    BOTTOM LINE - you want at the very least around 200 GLM equivalent to 140 GSM or about 4 Oz/square yard. But maybe 225 GLM/160GSM/4.75 Oz/square yard is a safer staring point unless the leather is fairly lightweight. All else equal the heavier lining material you get, the more durable it will be... but also the warmer the jacket will be.

    NB As an aside, we are pretty familiar with talking about leather in ounces to understand how thick and heavy it is. [If you’re not this is a good guide

    https://www.libertyleathergoods.com/leather-thickness-weight/ ]

    But don’t get confused thinking that 4oz plus fabric lining is seriously heavy like 4oz plus leather is. Fabric uses ounces per square yard, leather, being heavier, uses ounces per square foot! 4oz leather (per square foot) is 36 ounces per square yard! So you can see 4 ounce lining fabric has its work cut out coping with durably lining a heavy leather jacket...

    OK, that’s some ballpark on weight. What about the fabric weave? Well there are loads of these and as with everything fabric lots of confusing terms. Apart from aesthetic considerations, weave also influences the strength of the material, it’s breathability and how shiny and slippy it is. Weaves can also mean the different sides of the cloth look different (eg more shiny on one side, more matt on the other). Suffice it to say, for leather jacket lining purposes we want weaves that are strong, breathable and (especially for sleeves) slippy.

    In short any twill weave is a good strong choice (note there are many types of twill weave - for example drill is a type of twill weave, as is denim, herringbone, serge, garbardine and tweed).

    Slippy means a sateen or satin weave (both theses terms are the same four over one under weave, but sateen is the term for the weave with staple fibres like cotton and (some) rayon, satin refers to using filament fibres, classically silk but these days nylon and polyester too).

    https://www.dutchlabelshop.com/en_ca/blog/difference-satin-sateen/

    Interestingly the warm and very durable moleskin fabric (which is the excellent lining of a vintage dispatch riders coat I own) appears to be a sateen weave according to Wikipedia, albeit it’s a heavyweight cotton with a particularly tight weave and a raised nap or sheared finish...

    Drill being tough, sateen being slippy means a cotton drill body and cotton sateen sleeves is a common selection for leather jacket linings that are tough, wearable and not overly warm. It’s not what I went for in this particular reline of my Speedman, but it’s a very solid and affordable choice in my view, especially with proper leather or corduroy or moleskin reinforcement in key wear areas.
     
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  4. yellowfever

    yellowfever One of the Regulars

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    OK that’s weight and weave considered, what about fabric type? Well here’s where it gets even more complicated! Essentially we can divide fabrics into 3 types based on where the fibres come from (although many fabrics are also made from a blend of different fibres):

    1 Synthetic/man-made fibres (eg nylon, polyester etc)

    2 man-made using chemical processes but derived from natural materials fibres (regenerated cellulose fibres eg Viscose/Rayon/modal, cupro/Bemberg, lyocell/tencel, bamboo, acetate etc)

    3 natural fibres (eg wool, alpaca, cotton, hemp, linen, silk etc)

    Synthetics are in my view generally a poor choice for a casual (non-riding) jacket lining as they are not breathable (although weave can help). Polyester is inexcusable. If you can afford a leather jacket, you can afford a better lining than polyester which is sweaty and nasty and whose only redeeming feature is it’s cheapness. It’s not even that hard wearing. Nylon shares some of the same traits (especially sweatyness), but it can be both nice and slippy and extremely tough so that redeems it. All my riding jackets have nylon linings which allow for great movement and have proved near indestructible despite heavyweight jackets with armour in them and many years of service. BUT in all cases this is the nylon MESH lining, so breathabilty is excellent given all the holes. If you want a utilitarian, tough, slippy and well vented lining, nylon mesh is a very good choice. But it’s maybe a bit lacking in the style stakes, so perhaps not the best choice for a non-riding jacket. If you go for a solid (not mesh) nylon lining it won’t wear out, but you’ll wish it did as you ‘boil in the bag...’

    IN SUM: unless you’re using nylon mesh for a riding jacket, this category of fabric is maybe not the best choice. It’s cheap and (if nylon) strong but sweaty so mesh is a good idea...

    Next up are man made fibres created from natural materials. These can be an excellent (but potentially expensive) choice if you can navigate a lot of confusing names and the claims made about them. Essentially they are made using chemicals and wood or wood like materials (cellulose) using various different proprietary methods. There can be generic names for a particular process (eg Lyocell) and then specific brands within that (eg Tencel). All these fibres are typically breathable like fully natural fibres and often have a nice slippy cool feel and can be reasonably strong (but they’re not nylon tough...). Viscose/Rayon (made from wood pulp) is the oldest of this type. But not all rayon is created equal. Really you want HWM rayon which means it doesn’t weaken when wet (eg with sweat). This type can also be known as Modal. Bemberg Rayon (I think lost worlds use this on some jackets) has long been considered a fine quality silk-like rayon, but it’s apparently now only produced in Japan. It’s a type of Cupro rayon (the type of chemical process used). Cupro can get the cellulose from recycled cotton, making it more eco friendly but on the other hand the particular chemical process used is not so friendly (in common with many other fibres in this class). There are of course also many others quality rayon or rayon-like option these days. Lyocell/tencel are marketed as high end luxury fabrics without the environmental issues of cupro/Bembergs production process, though they’re also not cheap. Acetate, though often very silky, is considered a cheaper and less robust option than viscose/rayon especially around heat, so maybe not the best option?

    IN SUM: A good breathable, cool wearing and slippy choice, but expensive and you’ll want to avoid the cheaper more fragile versions and get higher quality options with (HWM) so it has reasonable durability. If cost not too much of a factor, perhaps the top choice for warmer weather wear/maximum flexibility on seasons?

    Lastly natural fibres. They will all breath well, but durability will be much more variable. The two most common are wool and cotton. Wool is of course warm, including when damp, but it’s not so durable being prone to damage from mechanical stress and piling. Cotton is more durable, but not as warm as wool, though some cotton weaves are warm enough for most I’d say. So I think wool is only worth it for a dedicated winter coat in a more heavyweight cloth to give lots of warmth and reasonable durability (especially if other materials reinforce high wear spots). Cotton is probably the better choice most of the time. A twill cotton fabric eg drill is great for the body and (slippy) sateen cotton for the sleeves is a classic combination for a reason. If you want more warmth, then (cotton) corduroy or better yet (cotton) moleskin can give you a cotton lining that’s both warm and hard wearing and feels nice too. My 70+ years old Elvo heavy long dispatch riders trench coat is cotton moleskin lined, very warm and the lining is still in great shape. In contrast, my heavy wool lined Vanson long leather trench coat got stolen whilst in for a re-line at William Lauder era Aero, when the wool lining wore through after 10 years of regular winter wear... Alpaca may be similar to wool (or warmer still) tho’ some find it scratchy. Personally I like it a lot for scarves hats and jumpers (never tried in a jacket - the I’ll fated vanson trench was meant to get an alpaca lining put in at aero...). Linen and hemp (if you can find it) won’t be cheap. But they are very breathable, develop a lovely hand over time and hemp in particular is strong and durable (hence its historic use in ropes on sailing ships). I have never tried either as a jacket liner yet, but I have summer trousers in linen and hemp and love them both. So I think they’d be a viable, if left field, alternative to cotton for something a bit different especially in warmer climates (though, no, you can’t get high smoking your hemp jacket lining...). Silks a tricky one. I’ve heard all the stories of how strong it is (as used in parachutes!) and of course it’s breathable, slippy and luxurious. But an expensive UK made 100% silk sleeping bag liner I took backpacking tore very quickly and a lightweight linen suit jacket I had made with a silk lining wore out rapidly too. OK that’s all of two data points, neither involving lining a leather jacket, so not exactly a scientifically valid sample. But I’m starting to think silk is luxurious only in the sense you must be rich to wear silk given you have to keep replacing it as it frequently wears out... so I’m not a fan.

    IN SUM: Cotton is probably the best choice most of the time and it’s also not too expensive and is readily available in a variety of weaves, colours and weights. For a cooler, breathable jacket, go with not overly heavy Drill/Sateen weaves. For warmer/harder wearing then heavier twill (eg drill, tweed) with sateen just for the sleeves. For a jacket or coat that’s warmer still (or for reinforcing high wear areas in jackets with less robust liners) then moleskin or corduroy is a great choice. A thick wool lining may be a warm and decent winter option, though it will inevitably wear more quickly.

    AND THE WINNER IS

    I went with light navy blue coloured heavy viscose twill winter selection throughout body and sleeves all shiny side out. Its weight is 225 GLM @ 1.4m so approx 161 GSM. I ordered 2 metres of this 1.4m wide fabric, which was plenty for the task.

    They don’t have the material I ordered in stock any more, but it’s from here
    https://www.theliningcompany.co.uk/linings/twill-linings/

    A great company, they were excellent at sending free samples and great service, though most linings are rather too lightweight for leather jacket linings IMO. Military or winter twill options probably the best. I was tempted with the military twill in the wine red colour, but in the end given durability concerns I went with the heaviest viscose twill they had, which was the blue winter selection.

    Overall I’m very happy with the result. The lining looks great and is smooth and slippy, breathable and about as lightweight and cool wearing as it can be, giving me more chances to wear the jacket. It should also be sufficiently hard wearing especially given the leather reinforcements I had done at the same time. Time will tell!

    If you made it all the way to the end of this saga, I hope it was of interest.

    YOUR LINING THOUGHTS AND EXPERIENCES WANTED

    If you’ve not fallen asleep reading this, I’d love to hear about your own experiences and opinions on the pros and cons of different lining materials and what works best for you and why... do you agree with my views or not? Has anyone made silk work or is it just an expensive mistake? Anyone tried unlined jackets? How did it go? And for those with more extreme winter climates, how about opinions on cold weather options that I’ve not covered - quilted, shearling, down etc?
     
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  5. yellowfever

    yellowfever One of the Regulars

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    and finally some pictures

    EA769B70-22B5-4BF0-9158-CC60CD4C69AC.jpeg D8A8A61F-5156-4A78-9343-B59BBCDDCB27.jpeg 1CDA3186-8AE5-4921-8B82-3AE4BA4537A4.jpeg FBBE15CE-06D8-4A9D-A45B-3018C8404967.jpeg FF270DD7-BCBD-4816-875E-E86410CAF62C.jpeg 093FBC07-AEDB-4566-82E0-FA5AE8351819.jpeg CDDCA0FD-2CAA-400B-9590-80189EFF6DD1.jpeg 5C8E9287-4690-4625-A8ED-9DDD1F31CC5D.jpeg
     
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  6. Marc mndt

    Marc mndt Call Me a Cab

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  7. navetsea

    navetsea I'll Lock Up

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    great looking jacket and refurbishing effort
    what a nice reading material, thanks!
    I agree leather strip on the hem is a standard, it is just logical. in term of relining, when time comes for me to reline, I will "borrow" Thedi's method with edge finisher ribbon to make things much easier and less intrusive when third lining job ever required, also eliminating the liner grinding against the edge of the facing
     
  8. navetsea

    navetsea I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    5,105
    Location:
    East Java
    I have a recent positive result from making compartment between sleeve and body lining, and cover the shoulder edge with leather strip, the benefit is there is no pulling and straining the liner when putting on the jacket or taking off and the edge finished on the outside makes further relining much easier in this case leather makes less grabby and stronger yet smoother against my clothes inside.
    Screenshot_20210423-092516_Gallery.jpg
    I also think the bottom facing should be on top of the liner, my fault here is just the edges should have been buffed round or folded Not raw like that. But i think it would still be more durable than the other way around as shown on my blue jacket
    Screenshot_20210423-092459_Gallery.jpg
    However when it ever need relining I will do the same like my shoulder, maybe not necessarily leather strips but webbing ribbon like the inside of bag or thedi's lining.

    I also think the upper back, theres the spine on the upper back that grinds against that lining. on denim jacket probably that is the area where leather patch is placed on the inside, and i do the same on my lining i like scalloped leather bellow the collar to safe the neck wear on the collar. On my latest one I asked for separate panel like leather patch on denim jacket to have more flexibility since the leather is super stiff, that was a trade off I started to regret as there is visible liner wear already compared to my grey one with usual leather facing for the neck
    Screenshot_20210423-092441_Gallery.jpg
     
    yellowfever and Marc mndt like this.
  9. yellowfever

    yellowfever One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    111
    @navetsea, many thanks. Interesting and excellent thoughts on reinforcing wear points, thanks for sharing.

    As you say, sleeve/body interface is another area that can be vulnerable to wear with putting jacket on and off. I think some of the cheaper slippy sleeve linings used are also not that durable and dampness from sweat can make them more fragile still (eg cheaper types of rayon/viscose). I like your interesting solution to this. I’ve also seen lather ‘half moon’ type underarm reinforcements, which I think can also work well, like these on my Pegasus trench-coat.

    71EC92F5-2C58-4FF9-9B7E-AFA31741C88E.jpeg

    As for bottom edges, I think you’re right, for durability it is probably better that the lining material is sewn under the leather facing edge rather than on top, but as you say it will need a buffed or better yet rolled edge to the leather facing so there is no sharp leather edge to saw away at the lining material. And I probably should have had some reinforcement added at the back of the neck area on my reline given what a common failure point this is, though as you say it’s a trade off with comfort/stiffness here. Not sure I’d go with leather here given comfort concerns, but corduroy might have been a good option for adding durability whilst still being comfortable on the crucial neck area...

    I would be interestied to hear/see more about the way Thedi do these things with edge finishing ribbon. I’ve no personal experience of Thedi, but from what I’ve seen and read here on TFL they do seem to be a brand that really thinks about the finer details of jacket design and have those subtle elements which really make a difference in the long run.
     
    navetsea likes this.
  10. yellowfever

    yellowfever One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    111
    A correction to add on lining materials that I discovered whilst responding on another thread about linings: apparently the lining on my BKS (high end creator of bespoke UK motorbike leathers - the makers of the first CE rated leathers) riding jacket is not made from nylon mesh as I thought, but in fact from airtex which is a polyester mesh fabric. So, contrary to what I said before, nylon or polyester mesh is a good choice for a riding jacket, not just nylon mesh. But I still think it’s best to avoid solid (non-mesh) polyester or nylon linings as these will be very sweaty as they don’t breathe (hence the need for mesh holes).
     

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