Asian-Influence Retro

[Ccc]

This may seem like a wild question, but does anyone have information on vintage or retro fashion trends in Asia? Specifically, I'm thinking of Hong Kong, Macau, Tokyo, as large population centers and what might be available.

Thanks for the info!

Ccc

 

[BettyValentine]

This may seem like a wild question, but does anyone have information on vintage or retro fashion trends in Asia? Specifically, I'm thinking of Hong Kong, Macau, Tokyo, as large population centers and what might be available

Sure thing, any particular era? The ubiquity of and attitudes towards Western dress change dramatically from decade to decade in modern Japan, depending on what was going on politically and culturally. The introduction of western clothing in Japan gets pretty complicated, at least for women since it was pretty clearly tied up with issues regarding femininity, "Japaneseness", individualism, nationalism and a whole pile of political issues that are either totally fascinating or really creepy. (And the amount of literature (largely by men) focused on the meaning and impact of what women were wearing is pretty staggering).

For example, the Meiji emperor was always depicted in Western costume (A pseudo-Prussian military uniform, specifically) but the empress was in both, depending on the occasion and what sort of role she was playing (ie: the throughly modern Queen of a nation as "civilized", modern, and powerful as any of the foreign powers, or the platonic form of the "Good Wife/Wise Mother" ideal the government espoused for Japanese women.) When she wore Paris couture at formal state events, though, they had little dickies made in matching fabric, because the decolletage of 1860s French formal wear was *sooo* not happening.

And I know a little bit about China, but that was just a secondary field of study. What specifically are you looking for?

 

[shindeco]

Shanghai Tang!!

http://www.shanghaitang.com/shanghaitang/index.jsp

Retro inspired, lots of fun!

 

[BettyValentine]

Ohh no, what have you done?! I hadn't seen the Fall 06 collection, and I can't afford Shanghai Tang!

Oh, I really need the wheel dress, the fan blouse and the cowl-neck sweater

 

[Ccc]

Thank you!

This is great info. I'm anticipating a trip to the area, and I was trying to learn more about any vintage or retro fashion trends occurring in Asia. I know it may not be a strong movement in Bejing, but the outer Chinese territories and Japan may have some people getting interested.

Also, if there are shops or on-line sources for additional info.

I appreciate the background!

Thanks.

 

[BettyValentine]

Okay! Well China will be difficult because not a whole lot of nice stuff in general survived the Cultural Revolution. You might find some authentic vintage -- it was popualr in Hong Kong, which was okay because it was a British colony and not "China" -- but the scarcity could make them very expensive. However, the qibao/cheongsam ("mandarin" dresses) came around in the 1900s (Shanghai version modified the manchu-style robe) and you'll have no trouble at all finding a tailor who will make you one to your exact measurements. Actually, China is pretty much a cornucopia of really cheap fashion. You can get just about anything tailored for like no money at all. My fiance is a Chinese Archaeologist (In that he does archaeology in China, but he is not an archaeologist who is Chinese) and he brings me clothes and stuff all the time.

Japan is *fabulous* for clothes. Oh my god, you have no idea how much I spend over there. Stuff is *very* expensive, though. There is a really strong movement going on with fashionable young women wearing vintage kimono. The modern combinations of vintage kimono are just *stunning*. You want to look at a magazine called Kimonohime (Kimono Princess). That magazine is absolute gold. It's just full of the most stunning photos of women in devastatingly stylish vintage kimono.I just love that it emphasizes going past "Pretty" and achieving "Iki". (People translate that lots of different ways, but I think it is best described as "Chic".) They show a lot of untraditional but stunning obi/kimono combinations, different ways of incorporating vintage accessories, and even how to make things yourself. If there is a kinokuniya near you, or any Japanese bookstore, you might want to pick up a copy and take a look through before you go so that you know what you like and what to look for.

Kimono are crazy expensive, but some vintage ones are less so, particularly if you don't mind a few tiny flaws. There are some vintage kimono boutiques that started out dealing to foreigners because foreigners were the only ones interested in antique kimono, but now that so many stylish young things are wearing antique kimono they're a little harder to find, but there are also more boutiques dealing wth them.

I'm totally addicted to Kimono, but it is a terrible idea for me. I have the worst figure in the world for kimono, but I keep buying them anyway.

BV

 

[shindeco]

When I lived in Japan 15 years ago I bought my sister an uchikake (special over kimono used for weddings) from a wedding rental place. At that time there was absolutely no market for used anything in Japan. It cost me just under a hundred dollars (and these things are huge--and all silk). The rental places were thrilled when they could unload the old stuff to some foreigner.

I wasn't really into vintage much back then but, boy, do I kick myself now. I could have come back with so much great stuff. Oh, well...

 

[LaMedicine]

BettyValentine has pretty much said it from the American's perspective, and I'm a little bit late coming on, I know, but something from a Japanese living in Tokyo.

I've been told that there are some shops that deal with vintage western clothes, but I don't really know where. I've seen some stalls a number of times at vintage/antique fairs held at various places, but truthfully, nothing that I fancied, besides they were mostly too small for me (I'm tall for a Japanese woman at 5' 5", and the average height for women here 50 years ago probably is 5' or 5'1" at most). I don't think any of them carry a wide range of stuff.
Truthfully, vintage style to us means kimonos, not vintage western clothes.

There is a movement on for vintage kimonos among the younger generation--basically in their 20- early 30s, but with Western clothes, nothing that is really visible. The fact is, people mix and match styles, so there is no really set pattern. If you come here, you will see a very wide variety of fashion, from the sloppy to high fashion, but basically conservative compared to the US. You are not going to see people in the work force in flip flops and stuff, for instance. You are going to see jeans and T shirts, sure (I wear them on my off days depending on the TPO), and I've seen enough of those torn out albeit expensive ones around to know that for the youth, it's in trend, but it's not like seeing them plastered all over.

With kimonos, it's part of a trend of re-discovering our culture for the younger generation, since for a long time, our society moved with a Western-is-better mindset, but now, a lot of people are beginning to realize that a lot of the craftsmanship that supported our culture is in the danger of dying out. Also, since several years ago, wearing yukatas--informal cotton summer kimonos-- started to become fashionable during the summer, especially for summer fireworks shows, and the timeline makes me think that becoming familiar with yukatas paved the way for the younger generation to move on to kimonos.

New kimonos are really, really outrageously expensive, and for the younger people, not something that they can get their hands on easily. Used kimonos--whether fairly modern, vintage, or antique-- can be had for about a quarter of their original price with the brand new ones (yes, there are old/new ones to be found, if you know what to look out for) and less for those that have some wear. However, though kimonos sizes are not as exact as western clothes, vintage kimonos are generally small.

Yes, a lot of shops that specialize in vintage/second hand kimonos are thriving now, but also, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the vintage kimonos the young women wear are actually hand me downs from their mothers or even grandmothers. Kimonos are much more durable than western clothes due to the quality of the fabrics, and also in that their construction enables them to be taken apart and re-sewen into a different size whether smaller or larger, or, if parts of the fabric is unusable for some reason, re-made into things for children, or coverlets, cushions, made into bags, pouches, etc, etc. In other words, when kimonos were daily wear, they were used, re-made and re-used until the only usage one could get out of them were as rags (and cotton kimonos as diapers) and rags were often the last bit of even the best kimonos! These days, many people alter kimonos into western clothes as well, and there are pattern books published for that purpose.

Anyway, since the majority of women stopped wearing kimonos for daily wear long ago (I have some memories of my mother in every day kimonos in the '50s but only on special occasions since the late '50s), most women have kept their kimonos in their chests (we've got an expression that translates to chest ferterlizer ) where they stay in pretty good condition. My mother has a chest full, which I have my eyes on, and I have friends who tell me the same story. As a matter of fact, when I visited one of my aunts in a kimono which was a wedding gift 30 years ago from my grandmother, she remarked that she has a chest upstairs full of kimonos that go back more than 60 years.lol
It's only this past year or so that I have started making the effort to wear kimonos as often as I can -- which is still once a month at most yet, since putting them on takes some practice, and boy, can you get yourself tangled up when tying the obi-sash if you're not adep enough at it yet. Of course, for special occasions that calls for formal kimonos, most women, myself like-wise, get the help of their hair dresser in donning the kimonos, as most female hair dressers are trained in dressing kimonos as well as hair-dos.

All the women consider their mother's kimonos their heritage. At least, my generation does. I hope with the present trend, that will be so for my daughters as well.

 

[LaMedicine]

Taisho Chic and Showa Modern

Taisho Chic and Showa Modern is the period from around 1910 to the '30s. This was a period when European art and Chinese/Japanese art influenced each other that resulted in Art Deco and Art Nouveu in Europe, and Taisho Chic and Showa Modern in Japan. If you are going to look for vintage designs and ideas, this probably is the period you should hit.

As far as I know (sorry, I'm no expert) with kimonos, it resulted in an explosion of color and large and blatant prints and patterns compared to the majority of designs up to that era that were more subdued and subtle. Also, a lot of the designs incorporated western designs. For instance, I have an obi on order that is a reproduction of one from the Taisho era, in which the design is that of western buildings and a couple dancing in formal attire--ankle length dress and black tie--on the back, and a violin and music score on the front. I have another repro fabric for lining a kimono coat, from the Showa Modern period, which is a print of bisque dolls.

Betty mentioned Kimonohime, and the style that magazine puts together looks like it's inspired by Taisho Chic/Showa Modern, but with a persent day twist and radical in its own way, compared to the somewhat more subtle combinations that most people will actually put together.

There are a number of kimono manufacturers that have histories that go back a few hundred years, some over 400 years, and these people have pattern/design books that go back all those years, so they produce from time to time, designs inspired from these originals. Though many new designs and patterns come out every year, the basics of these patterns are mostly designs that go back and have developed over hundreds of years, many go back over 1000 years. Even with Taisho Chic/Showa Modern, these patterns did not go out, and often were used in combinations and colors that were innovative. So, the present day Japanese designs are a combination of things that sometimes go back over 1000 years and things that came into Japan since mid 19th century on.

 

[Ccc]

Thank you, LaMedicine

This is so cool, as my daughter would say! I appreciate all the background, and I am definitely heading to the library tomorrow to investigate some more, especially the Taisho and Showa influences.

Thanks so much!

Ccc

 

[LaMedicine]

When I lived in Japan 15 years ago I bought my sister an uchikake (special over kimono used for weddings) from a wedding rental place. At that time there was absolutely no market for used anything in Japan. It cost me just under a hundred dollars (and these things are huge--and all silk). The rental places were thrilled when they could unload the old stuff to some foreigner.

There isn't much use for uchikake, once its durability as a bridal costume has run out, and the rental shops have recouped the cost (they originally cost from 20-30K and up) since their designs are special and too extravagant to be remade into regular kimonos. I have seen table centers and ornaments made from uchikake material, and I suppose they can be made into cushions and coverlets, bags and such, and they could be remade into western dresses as well, but re-use as kimonos is pretty much out of question, unless it's as a costume for a costume party or something on par with that.

As far as kimonos go, there was a period when there was no market for used kimonos. I say period, because actually, there was always a market for second hand kimonos which disappeared only because women stopped wearing kimonos as everyday clothing after WW II, and there no longer was a sustainable market. Good kimonos, especially formal ones, were one of the favorite items for pawns when in need of money. Many books and plays have scenes where the wife runs to the pawn shop with her best kimono because the household is short of money for one reason or another. One often comes across jokes about the best kimonos being kept in good care or in the bank, meaning they were pawned for the time being, or of a particular kimono that made countless trips to and back from the pawn shop. Some of these kimonos, and kimonos from affluent people who got tired of them, found their way to secondhand kimono merchants, where they were sold to people who didn't have enough income to splurge on a new kimono, especially formal ones.

I'm pretty sure, though, once kimonos went out of daily life, people still felt uncomfortable about getting rid of them in one way or another, and kept them tucked away, and it's only recently that some started finding the way to recycle kimono boutiques, which coincided with the vintage kimono boom that's around now. Kimonos, after all, are easy to resize and can be worn for a long time even if one gets older, and can be easily passed on to the younger generations of the family if the designs get too flamboyant for you. Between my mother and me, we have enough kimonos to pass on to my daughters to cover almost any occasion. That is pretty much the case for most middle and upper income families.

There are many rules concerning kimonos, what patterns and designs are fit for daily wear, what are fit for formal wear, which occasion calls for which type, the seasons, etc, and the average Japanese would easily recognize whether the person is in appropriate attire for the occasion or not. This can also result in demands for certain types being higher than others, while to the untrained eye, it just isn't understandable why some of these things end up dirt cheap even if they are in good condition.

 

[BettyValentine]

LaMedicine: I'm so envious! My cousin doesn't like kimono so she gave me some of the ones her mother gave her, but I only have a couple. The Taisho look is my favorite -- i love the those modern girls with their bright kimono and waved hair (I love your avatar, by the way. You look so chic like that.) They look so stylish like that. I think the Showa style in general seems to be a little more conservative, but still quite beautiful. Maybe it's a little less lively, but more refined.

I think that's why Kimonohime is my favorite fashion magazine. The photos are just so chic; they have a lovely vintage aesthetic, but with a creative, modern twist to it, and that's really the sort of look I like best.

I was wondering if you have any trouble tying vintage obi? I'm not very good at all, but I can tie my modern obi on myself, and some of my older ones, but I've noticed that with some vintage obi the fabric is a lot stiffer and I can't pull it tight on myself. I have to get my husband to tie them for me because he's stronger. I don't know if that is because of the fabric used, the age of the obi, or if I'm just not yet good enough to tie them properly.

BV

 

[LaMedicine]

Betty, the reason vintage obis are harder to tie is probably because of its construction. Generally, obis soften up and become easier to tie with use.

Take a careful look at your vintage obi. Are the patterns same on both sides and there is a seam only along one edge, and the other is folded in half? If that's the case, then the obi is "maru-obi", the most traditional type that was woven double width, so is also very heavy, and stiff. These obis are the most formal type as well, and these days used only for bridal costumes. Basically, the brocade maru-obi wouldn't have been tied by one's self, the person would most certainly have someone help out since people who could afford them would be affluent enough to have household help. A lot of people have other hands help in tying obi, I used to get called upon by my mother whenever she was going out in a formal kimono, since there is a slight difference in the way they are tied with formal kimonos and informal kimonos.

The most formal obi now are "fukuro-obi" with which the outer side and the inner side are woven separately and sewn together. This type came into being in early Showa, the late '20s, and are lighter and easier to tie, since the brocade weave, or embroideries and designs are only on one side, and the inner side is basically plain weave.

Another type, "Nagoya-obi" is informal, but with certain patterns, can be used with semi-formal kimonos. This is the type with which the part that comes out on the front is already folded and sewn in half, and the back part is left full width. This was innovated by a school mistress of a girls' school in Nagoya around the end of the Taisho era, hence the name, "Nagoya-obi"

You mentioned that it was difficult with your figure to wear kimonos, so have you ever tried to "correct" your figure before wearing a kimono? Take a couple of face towels (not too thick), fold them quarter width, circle them around your waist over your basic underwear, and tie a cloth belt, the type you use in tying kimonos, then put on the "naga-jyuban", the under kimono, over it. That should help you achieve the straighter silouhette that you need for the obi.

Incidentally, a woman's magazine here that has been in print for 90 years just put out a book on the history of kimono for the past 90 years using articles and photographs from their past editions. Pretty good summary of the changes in kimono fashion.
WW II pretty much put a halt to the Taisho Chic/Showa Modern style as the designs would have been frowned upon and considered too extravagant and flamboyant when everyone was supposed to be concentrating on the war effort. Post WW II, the direction was towards kimonos that incorporated western dress "feel" into the prints and designs, and more subtle than the pre WW II era, this probably having to do as much with the economic devastation due to the war as with the effects of the influx of western culture due to Allied occupation. People, after all, had a lot more on their mind than extravagant kimonos for a long time.

Thank you for your compliment on my avatar, this was taken at a Christmas party last year, and while I usually have my hair up in a simple chignion or a french twist, I just had to make a go at getting that style.

 

[shindeco]

Incidentally, a woman's magazine here that has been in print for 90 years just put out a book on the history of kimono for the past 90 years using articles and photographs from their past editions. Pretty good summary of the changes in kimono fashion.
WW II pretty much put a halt to the Taisho Chic/Showa Modern style as the designs would have been frowned upon and considered too extravagant and flamboyant when everyone was supposed to be concentrating on the war effort. Post WW II, the direction was towards kimonos that incorporated western dress "feel" into the prints and designs, and more subtle than the pre WW II era, this probably having to do as much with the economic devastation due to the war as with the effects of the influx of western due to Allied occupation. People, after all, had a lot more on their mind than extravagant kimonos for a long time.

LaMedicine,
Could you provide some more information about the book; it sounds amazing!!

slightly fftopic: This thread keeps reminding me of a former student of mine; a Japanese lady in her early 70s. One day, she was talking about her mother. Apparently her mother came from a fairly upper class family. When the mother was young her everyday wear was the full, formal furisode and the laquered, neck-breaker hair ... and she used to play tennis dressed like that!

 

[LaMedicine]

The title of the book is "Kimono no Hana Saku Koro [Shufu no Tomo] 90nen no Chie", , or in English, "When Kimonos Bloom, 90 years of [Shufu no Tomo]'s wisdom.
The link is to Amazon Japan.
The articles are summaries and commentaries on the articles published in the magazine, not the actual articles themselves, but the photographs and illustrations used in the book are all copies from the magazine.

As for playing tennis in furisode...lol wow, but not really hard to imagine. Even though women were supposed to act demurely, there were many "otenba" girls, tomboys, and I've heard stories of climbing trees and things like that. There's a traditional girls' game that I used to play as a child, mostly around New Years, that unfortunately we don't see done anymore, called "hanetsuki." It's a kind of a batting game, played with flat wood paddle, and the shuttle a small black wood ball about half an inch in diameter, with 5-6 small colorful feathers planted in the ball. The paddles have colorful illustrations on one side, and small prints on the batting side. So, it's not that long a shot from that to tennis.

The "laquered" hair is hardened with camellia oil, so, is very fragrant. It is still used in stying the "mage" hair of the sumo wrestlers. I've been told that it's very painful to put one's hair up in "Nihon-gami", the traditional women's style, and the top of one's head had to be shaved to stablize the top bun, and often, older women ended up with a bald spot there. So, with the lovely Geisha girls in "Memoires of a Geisha" all had bald spots on the top of their head. Not so romantic, eh?

 

[anna_newman]

Ladies, this is such wonderful information. I need to have a copy of Kimono hime and the 90 years of kimono book! And shindeco, what beautiful clothing at Shanghai Tang! sigh......

I found some scans of Kimono hime online: http://community.livejournal.com/kimonoworld/44366.html#cutid1
The colors, the hairstyles--just amazing!

anna

 

[BegintheBeguine]

Cool! Thank you! Welcome to the Lounge. (Quickly figured out to look at the hair diagrams from right to left. )

 

[LaMedicine]

Here's a link to a museum that collects fashion and magazine illustrations from the Taisho Chic/Showa Modern era. Sorry, it's all in Japanese, so you'll have to use an online translator.
Yayoi Museum

Here are the links to the page of some of the illustrations that they have.
Yumeji Takehisa is a famous poet and artist from this era.
Yumeji Collection

Kasyo Takabatake was a popular fashion illustrator/artist.
Takabatake Collection

 

[Story]

Thursday, Feb. 22, 2007
Shanghai's Art Deco Riches Revealed
By Gary Jones/Shanghai

Recording his city's rich architectural heritage has been a demoralizing task for Shanghainese photographer Deke Erh. While Art Deco buildings in Miami, New Zealand's Napier and even the Eritrean town of Asmara are lovingly tended, Shanghai has demolished scores of equally historic structures in its headlong rush for modernity. "I've been taking photographs of old Shanghai for 20 years, and I've continually seen these things torn down," says Erh. "But I still have hope. Even today, Shanghai has more Art Deco buildings than any other city in the world. If I didn't have hope, I'd have to give up."

The publication of Erh's self-funded new book Shanghai Art Deco is testament to the 47-year-old photographer's determination in the face of the city's merciless wrecking ball. In 320 pages and over 1,000 photographs, Erh and other photographers capture many of the city's surviving historic residences, hotels, cinemas and municipal buildings—creating a sweeping survey of the architectural and cultural treasures that could be threatened by relentless development. "When these buildings went up in the 1920s and '30s, a great deal of money and thought went into creating a beautiful city," says Erh. "Since then, so many new skyscrapers have gone up haphazardly without any aesthetic plan. I just want to show those in power how things could be."

Erh would like things to be as they once were. Emphasizing clean, uncluttered shapes and simplified lines to express the dynamism of the mechanical age, Art Deco first gained recognition in 1925 at the International Exhibition of Modern Decorative and Industrial Arts in Paris. Within a few years, its influence had spread to Shanghai, at a time when the "Paris of the East" was largely under the control of Western powers. With close to 4 million inhabitants, 1930s Shanghai was the fifth-largest city in the world and the most cosmopolitan place in China. To reflect the era's gin-and-jazz culture, Shanghai's architects turned their backs on the pompous colonial edifices of yesteryear and embraced the modern sophistication of Art Deco. It was a prolific but short-lived phenomenon. When Mao Zedong's communists seized control of the country in 1949, the clampdown on Shanghai's foreign influences was total, and a period of isolationism began.

"For almost 40 years Shanghai was cut off from the world," says Tess Johnston, a 75-year-old American who has lived in Shanghai for more than two decades and who wrote the text for Erh's book. "Now that the city has a chance to catch up, it is looking to the future and neglecting the past. If things don't change, everything that makes Shanghai unique will be lost forever."

Shanghai Art Deco is the eighth collaboration by Erh and Johnston. Though their previous works, all celebrating and recording Western architectural influences on Chinese cities, were published only in English, this book is bilingual. "The others were really aimed at a foreign market, but it's important for me to spread my ideas about conservation to the Chinese population," says Erh. It's not yet a lost cause, adds Johnston, noting that an increasing number of Shanghainese are finally recognizing the value of the more mature buildings in their midst—not least because foreign professionals are willing to pay top dollar to rent them. "Perhaps purely economic incentives might actually save old Shanghai yet," she says.

An awareness of the contribution of Chinese architects may also make the Shanghainese look at these buildings in a new way, for not all were shaped by colonial hands. Though prerevolutionary Shanghai's most high-profile proponents of Art Deco were non-Chinese—including Hungarian architect Ladislaus Hudec and the French architecture firm of Leonard, Veysseyre and Kruze—Erh brings to light the forgotten Chinese architects of the period, such as Benjamin Chih Chen, Shen Chao and Chuin Tung, all graduates of the University of Pennsylvania in the 1920s. As founders of Allied Architects, the city's most famous Chinese-owned design firm, the trio was responsible for the imposing Chekiang First Commercial Bank, completed in 1948. Erh also highlights the delightful Chinese Aviation Association building, which the U.S.-trained Chinese architect Dong Dayu designed in the shape of a stylized aircraft of the mid-1930s. Today the structure is a military hospital.

The release of Erh's book was timed to coincide with one of the world's biggest architectural-appreciation gatherings—the annual Art Deco Weekend organized by the Miami Design Preservation League (MDPL). This year's event, held over three days in January, was entitled "East Meets West: Art Deco from Shanghai to Miami," and featured an exhibition of Erh's images of both cities. "Shanghai and Miami Beach share a great deal in common," explains the MDPL's spokesman Scott Timm. "They are both economic and business centers for their regions, represent a blending of cultures and both contain a large number of Art Deco structures that must coexist with growing pressure for high-rise development."

Erh hopes the spate of publicity generated overseas for Shanghai's Art Deco tradition might serve to boost his conservationist cause. But getting Shanghai itself to take notice is a slow process. A delegation of Shanghainese officials—representing government, urban planning, preservation and business development—attended the Miami event. "I invited them all to see the same exhibition in Shanghai, and they never came," says Erh. "It's a joke. I spent $3,750 of my own money to ship the pictures to Miami, when they could have seen them right here in Shanghai."


* Find this article at:
* http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1592586,00.html

 

[Story]

This Old House: Blog follows Shanghai renovation

http://www.shanghaiist.com/archives/2007/03/13/this_old_house_1.php