Dating a Burberry Trench coat

[Shinobichi]

Hi all wonder what your thoughts are on dating this Burberry Trench.

#1 Has it changed much as far as looks and quality is concerned since it first came out?

#2 What year do you think this one is? { note: the fabric care tag]

#3 Are there any other tags/ things I should look for ? These are all the tags. The next pics will showcase them.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Shinobichi]

Some more pics, note Fabric Care tag:







/b538/blk_rabbit/DSC05616_zpscb5bcdd9.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

 

[Shinobichi]

Sorry people ...didn't know that I deleted these pics....here they are again!


....wonder what your thoughts are on dating this Burberry Trench.

#1 Has it changed much as far as looks and quality is concerned since it first came out?

#2 What year do you think this one is? { note: the fabric care tag]

#3 Are there any other tags/ things I should look for ? These are all the tags. The next pics will showcase them.

























Thanks everyone!

 

[Shinobichi]

and...

 

[Rabbit]

I don't have the answer regarding dating and would be interested in learning about it myself. Just mentioning, it looks like to you got yourself one of the really good ones. Burberry quality went down the drain when the company started outsourcing their production, which I believe began in the late 1980s (not sure about the date).

I own the same trenchcoat model in the same fabric (100% cotton outer, 100% cotton liner, not counting the wool extra liner) which seems to have a specific, almost rubber-like surface treatment on a rather sturdy cotton (at least it looks identical to mine on your photos), unlike the thinner cotton used for some other models. It's also very different from their two cotton/ polester mixes, although the cotton/polester mix with the higher cotton percentage is still a decent raincoat material. I'ver handled one of the latter and found it a useful fabric, although I guess originally it was the cheaper alternative to the 100% cotton version.

I have another one, a single-breasted in navy 100% cotton that was bought by my father in the early 90s. It's actually still a very good fabric that holds up well during long walks in the rain, but it's clearly inferior to the fabric of this DB trenchcoat of yours.

Another tan single-breasted model I own is quarterlined and made of extremely thin cotton. It's a great raincoat for wear in the summer, but it doesn't provide the rain protection you get from this model here.

My entirely uneducated guess is that the better Burberrys like this one which still turn up on ebay with some frequency mostly date from the 80s, some perhaps as early as the 70s.

 

[Doctor Damage]

The extra rows of stitching on the belt are sort of a help... I have a Burberry catalogue from the early 90s and at that date the belts didn't have the extra rows of stitching, nor since, so this coat is earlier than the early 90s.

 

[Shinobichi]

Thanks Rabbit...hahaha my email is black rabbit.....anyways..

there's a 'sharkskin' look that is not apparent in these photos. To my understanding, the term 'sharkskin' as used on clothing is a 'kind of sheen' [ I hope I 'm using this term correctly , correct me if I'm wrong] that is popular in a lot of jackets used in the 1950's and in the 80's.

This trench has a very light bluish/ greenish and very very light violet sheen to it. It's not very clear, the colours, and it's based on my educated guess . The sheen is definitely there. So when you are wearing it and moving about you can faintly see it.

Not sure if this sheen is just for fashion, or a waterproof protectant/ fashion look.

There is something else too that pictures cannot bring out.....there is a nice strong 'vintage'/old/musty smell in the liner and a bit on the trench....aaaah...am I the only one with this fetish?

Does your trench have this sheen Rabbit?

 

[Shinobichi]

The extra rows of stitching on the belt are sort of a help... I have a Burberry catalogue from the early 90s and at that date the belts didn't have the extra rows of stitching, nor since, so this coat is earlier than the early 90s.

Thanks Doc for the info...ironically this thought crossed my mind when I took those pictures! I thought, " Wonder if someone's gonna mention the belt. "

Great insight Doc. A lot of times as you 've shown, the small details are the big clues in dating.

In your catalogues, do they mention any sheen on the trenches? The sheen I mentioned in my reply to Rabbit.

I'm really interested in knowing if ALL the [ older] Burberry trenches have this sharkskin .

Also , does anyone know if the style of Burberry's trench changed much since it first came out? Is there a pictorial guide I can get on this or must I do my own picture study?

Thanks Doc.

 

[Seb Lucas]

It looks like a more recent model but I'm not an expert. By that I mean the past 30 years. I think there's a thread here on the logo and changes over the past decades.

 

[Shinobichi]

Cool I'll check out the thread. Thanks! Yea the fabric care tag gives it away to be more current. Just wonder HOW much has the Burberry trench changed in style since it first started.

 

[Dinerman]

I think that type of garment care label didn't show up on Burberry coats until the 1980s.

 

[Shinobichi]

Hey check this eye opener conversation! http://community.ebay.com/t5/Fashio...errys-trench-coat-please/td-p/19353627/page/3

Titled: Need help dating this Burberrys' trench coat pleas...

This article brought me to :http: //vintagefashionguild.org/label-resource/burberrys/

Titled: Vintage Fashion Guild : Label Resource : Burberrys

"In the late 1990s (probably 1998) the company changed the name to Burberry."~ VINTAGE FASHION GUILD

 

[Shinobichi]

Hey does your trench tag has 'Brittany Ltd' on the bottom of ' MADE IN ENGLAND'?

 

[Rabbit]

Shinobichi, my Burberrys DB trench does indeed have that slight sheen to it. I'd call the faint tint red rather than violet, but I guess it's the same kind of fabric. The cotton outer shell is a darker khaki. The surface looks like it has some thin coating like waxed cotton, only much less so, but I'm no expert and can't really tell what it is. Anyway it's very effective in the rain, and the fabric still looks like real cotton, not like a "poly-something treated cotton" that has been effectively turned into a synthetic mix.

Here's some news: Mine doesn't have the extra row of stitching on the belt, yet the quality of the fabric and the stitching overall is very good indeed - I've had the opportunity to compare it to other Burberrys and Burberry trenchcoats and put this one in the "top drawer category". I'm a Burberrys size 44 EUR, so the main problem was finding the small size.

When the label changed from Burberrys to Burberry, did this coincide with the outsourcing/ decline in quality of fabric and sewing?

Going by Dr Damage's dating info of the belt, mine is from the 90s and still a very well made coat. However, I've seen lots of other coats that weren't quite as good - the ones in cotton/ polester mix as well as the navy 100% cotton from my dad.
What I'm trying to say is that Burberrys in the 90s must have produced a large range of different models, so it's safe to say that not all Burberrys were of the same quality, even when talking about the classic DB trenchcoat alone. The cheaper poly-mix versions also differed in the design: No flap on the buttoned side pockets, just a buttoned slit pocket; no D-Rings on the belt; a different (or absence of a) storm flap at the back of the collar; different stitching under collar, and some other specs. Some had the rain flap on both sides of the chest; some lacked the rain flap on the upper back.

The name under Burberrys Prorsum appears to be the store/ vendor name. On mine it's absent.

Below are the seller's pics.

 

[Rabbit]

 

[Rabbit]

This is my SB raincoat in thin - very thin - 100% cotton. This one has a store name under the Burberrys label.

 

[Big J]

If it's got a made in England label, it's not new. All production had been outsourced to China recently, IIRC.

 

[Shinobichi]

Thanks Rabbit for your pics and I've learnt a new term : Burberrys Prorsum....niiiiiiiiiiiice!

Hahaha I forgot to capture those 'evidence' tags you've shown. I have all the same tags.

You have a nice trench....mine is more Olive than khaki.

The article I mentioned "Need help dating this Burberrys' trench coat pleas.." { Cut and paste to Google]


didn't say anything about changes being made to the coats after the name changed from Burberrys to Burberry in the late 1990's.

It's possible ,as Big J says, if they 're outsourcing to China.

Not surprised...everything's heading that way it seems....so sad! I missed the old days when there was VARIETY and you can actually look at different qualities from different countries.

It's like that in the human history of military fashion too....the German WW2 uniforms were all top notch quality and then for economic reasons started to cut back and it became worse.

The article also warned of authenticity issues. So if they're outsourcing to China, expect a huge wave of fakes floating around.


Anything big like BurberryS is gonna be targeted for sure by the rackets in China.

" I hate Delmonte and his mob because they're behind everything's that rotten, I mean to wipe them out if it takes hot lead!"~The Beast of the City 1932

It's good to be informed if BurberryS did any changes so the consumer will know the if they're fakes.

I wonder if it's possible to ask BurberryS for this info? I guess if I can do it so can the crooks.

 

[Rabbit]

You're welcome, Shinobichi. I see, so yours is more olive. Makes sense, with the green undertone you mentioned.

I'm almost certain that today's production of Burberry is indeed outsourced. The quality drop must have taken place about a decade later than I thought, sometime in the 90s. The current production is definitely not up to the standard of old. They have clearly developed into a fashion brand.
Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I doubt that the current staff at Burberry will be much of a help when looking for information on the company's history, their older models and production methods etc. I'd be interested to hear how it works out should you try to contact them.