Hallmarks of a good tie.

[Ethan Bentley]

I am familiar with the attributes of a high quality shirt but am not sure of those of a high quality tie.

I've heard a bit about lining and that the tie should be cut on bias but if anyone could share anymore I would be most grateful.

 

[Qirrel]

It is impossible to define a "quality" tie. The decisive factor to look for in a tie is whether it looks ugly or not.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

True, true.

But polyester ties are more likley to be ugly than silk ones...maybe because of the 70s.

If you are looking for a certain era this thread may be helpful
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=48913

 

[Tomasso]

Hallmarks of a good tie.

1. High quality face fabric. Just as with suiting and shirting the better stuff costs more. The better stuff has a denseness to it which allows the tie to drape better. The more silk used on a tie (3-4-5-6-7-8 fold) the more you'll pay. Self tipping with face silk will add more to the cost.

2.Lining (if used;high fold ties are often unlined). The higher the wool content the better. 100% wool being preferable as it drapes best and lends suppleness to the tie. Again, this costs.

3.Workmanship/construction. Handwork is preferred for cutting and sewing. It's not unusual for a master tie maker to open and close a tie several times before proper balance is achieved; spending up to two hours on a tie. These ties will hold their shape for years without rippling and twisting as less expensive ties have a tendency to do.

Personally, I generally prefer a 3-fold with a lining of medium thickness. Thankfully, I haven't caught multi-fold fever.

That said, I've seen a whole lot of fugly ties made of the finest silk by world class artisans. [huh]

 

[Ethan Bentley]

Tomasso this was exactly the sort of information I was looking for, a great definition of a quality tie, thank you.
So if one were having a bespoke tie made these would be the things to look to add.

Thanks.

I have just found this: http://sevenfoldties.reflexblue.org/index.php very interesting...

 

[Ed13]

A slip knot is another sign of a high quality tie. Just look inside the small end of the tie and you will see an extra loop of string from where the tie is stitched together. My understanding is it helps the tie keep its shape.

One way to check if a tie's bias is cut properly is to hold the tie hanging, if it does not have any twisting it is OK. If it does twist it is best to move on, it will not lie flat on your chest.

 

[Ed13]

I don't know what the quality is like for the sevenfolds tie website but you might want to consider Sam Hober Custom Ties. He has had great feedback in different forums for years. I am about to order a grenadine from him.

 

[Lou]

Tomasso, thank you for the intro to tie quality. Are there certain makers considered by tie aficionados to be worthwhile bargain options? Removing price as a consideration, who are some of the crem de la crem makers?

 

[fluteplayer07]

I'd like to know also... I've always felt guilty buying the cheap $20-$30 'Kenneth Cole' etc. ties on the sale rack at Parisian. I guess if I'll dish out some money for a good tie, I might as well do it the right way.

 

[Talbot]

The quality of the tie is in direct proprtion to the likelihood of spilling something on it the first time you wear it.


Dont ask.....

 

[Corky]

To determine the quality of a silk tie, look at the buckram.

To determine the quality of a silk tie, look at the buckram.

One first has to open up the wide end of a silk tie. This can usually be accomplished by turning the wide end of the tie inside out and exposing the strip of buckram that is inside the tie.

Buckram is a stiff cloth, made of cotton, and still occasionally linen, which is sometimes used to cover and protect books. Buckram is also used to stiffen clothes.

Most better quality ties have a hand-stitched knot at the end of the inside seam of the wide end of the tie which can be untied to inspect the buckram.

The buckram or stiffener fabric inside the tie should have between one and four diagonal gold stripes.

If you were a tie buyer for a chain of men's stores, and wanted to be sure that you were getting the quality of tie you were paying for, you would be looking inside a tie now and then and counting these stripes.

Four stripes indicates the highest quality of silk, three a lesser quality, two a bit less, and one the lowest quality that one should be concerned with.

 

[Ethan Bentley]

Once again thanks for all the comments, really food for thought. I know someone who is pretty dandy with a needle and thread and they are going to have a go at making a tie from the instructions on Ben Fold's website.

It seems like a pretty big task, but they say they enjoy a challenge.

 

[Tomasso]

they are going to have a go at making a tie from the instructions on Ben Fold's website.

Have them take a peek at this as well. Also, grabbing a few ties form the local thrift shop to reverse engineer (opening and closing them for practice.) might prove valuable experience. I know that tie making is a lot harder than it looks.

 

[Stoneface]

@Tomasso:

If you got problems making a tie then you should take a look here:

http://www.stoffwerk.at/stoffwerk/derherr/krawatten-binde-anleitung.html

http://www.stoffwerk.at/stoffwerk/images/double-windsor_ueberblick1024.jpg

Several different ties all with a top down view which makes it way easier to make a tie

 

[Tomasso]

@Tomasso:

If you got problems making a tie then you should take a look here:

Thanks Stoneface but I can tie a tie well enough; I'm talking about making a tie:

 

[Baron Kurtz]

yep, it ain't easy. No matter how many vintage patterns you've got, it ain't easy. Takes a lot of practice, let me tell you! But like most things, it gets easier with practice.

bk

p.s. Some patterns are easier than others. I find that the higher the fold #, the easier it is. Don't know why that is, but that's my experience.

 

[Mulberrywood]

Ethan Bentley,

You have received lots of good advice in this thread.

A few observations:

Pure wool is used in luxury lined ties although on occasion some makers will use something else.

I think Corky is confusing the practice of layering pure cotton on top of wool with something else.

As for counting stripes that is not true. In the distant past there was interlinings with stripes but even then it was not very good information on a tie's quality.

If your friend is very talented with sewing, makes her own patterns, etc. and she has access to wool necktie interlinings and necktie silks and the time to make dozens of practice ties you should end up with something nice.

The tie making will take about two hours after she has lots of practice plud pattern making time.

It is a sartorial myth that not cutting on the bias is the typical reason for twisting ties. Actually it is the folding and sewing which if not done correctly will cause the twisting most of the time.

 

[Corky]

My note on the diagonal Gold Bars or Stripes on the buckram...

Mulberrywood:

You wrote

"I think Corky is confusing the practice of layering pure cotton on top of wool with something else."

The method I described was used by the principal tie buyer for Brooks Brothers in Manhattan in the mid 1970's. He taught the process to new employees in order for them to be able to accurately determine the quality (and price) of the ties they would be selling.

Sadly, I lack the skills to make a tie. But I appreciate the art that goes into making one.

Best of luck...

 

[Mulberrywood]

Mulberrywood:

You wrote
"I think Corky is confusing the practice of layering pure cotton on top of wool with something else."
The method I described was used by the principal tie buyer for Brooks Brothers in Manhattan in the mid 1970's. He taught the process to new employees in order for them to be able to accurately determine the quality (and price) of the ties they would be selling.

Sadly, I lack the skills to make a tie. But I appreciate the art that goes into making one.

Best of luck...

Corky,

Softly, gently & politely, I think something got lost in the translation of the story that you were told as the information is simply not correct. It is a sartorial urban myth.

There are a number of reasons why it is not correct:

Ack-Ti Lining which is the American interlining supplier that probably supplied BB at that time based on your story did not make high quality pure wool interlinings. I remember talking to Ack-Tie about their interlinings before they went out of business and their best interlining had perhaps 25% wool and would never be used in a luxury tie.

The best quality ties typically (with only a few exceptions) will be pure wool and the Ack-Ti interlinings were not pure wool so interlining stripes are not a good judge of quality - the same for other materials such as cotton.

Now if we wanted to try and reverse engineer the story a bit - just for fun - maybe at the time BB used a partial wool interlining from Ack-Ti on their best tie and the buyer taught the staff a showy sales technique to promote sales?

Of course it is also possible that the buyer was buying primarily items other ties and was led to believe the stripe myth by Ack-Ti but without talking to the buyer we will never know the actual situation.

I have heard lots of incorrect information from retail sellers of ties - it is normal.

Below is a 1991 short article that a Google search turned up which supports what I am saying:

A Straight Dope Classic from Cecil's Storehouse of Human Knowledge
Does the number of gold threads in a tie's lining indicate its quality?
December 20, 1991

"Dear Cecil:

The other day at work we were sitting around (on our coffee break, of course) telling stories about our middle school days. We discovered that although we grew up in different parts of the country (Atlanta and Dallas), the students in both our middle schools believed you could tell the quality of a necktie by the number of golden threads running through the lining inside.

When we graduated to high school and our parents began to equip us with nicer neckwear, we noticed that some expensive ties such as Hermes and older Brooks Brothers models did contain the much sought-after golden stripes, confirming our beliefs. However, other quality ties such as newer Brooks Brothers and Perry Ellis were stripeless.

Is there any basis for the belief that gold threads mean quality? Or have we been prying open perfectly good ties all these years for nothing

— Paul White, Wally Ingram, Austin, Texas

Cecil replies:

This is what guys talk about nowadays? Whatever happened to cars, sports, and girls? Contrary to common belief, the number of gold stripes in a tie's inner batting (the "interlining") does not indicate its quality. We might have guessed this. You really think a manufacturer would use a lining proclaiming that it made crummy ties?

Gold stripes indicate that the lining (1) was made by the Ack-Ti Lining company of New York City, the world's largest maker of interlinings and holder of the gold stripe trademark; and (2) contains some wool. Wool's resiliency helps the tie hold its shape and shed wrinkles hanging in the closet overnight.

The number (as opposed to the mere presence) of gold threads indicates not the quality but the weight of the interlining. One stripe indicates the lightest material, six stripes the heaviest. Tie makers generally use light interlinings with heavy "shells" (the outer part of the tie) and heavy interlinings with light shells. This ensures that ties of varying materials all have roughly the same "hand," i.e., bulk or feel.

Years ago Ack-Ti was quite successful in promoting the idea that gold stripes = wool = quality, and Joe Citizen naturally but erroneously concluded the more stripes the better. Interlinings without gold threads aren't necessarily bad; they may simply have been made by a different manufacturer (or else they're one of Ack-Ti's non-wool varieties)...."
— Cecil Adams


http://www.ask.com/bar?q=gold+strip...cniqAHpL3pB5MG4+VzDfFOg/BQ=&tsp=1277123403357

 

[Corky]

Thank you, David. I appreciate the information.

I always enjoy learning something new.

Perhaps what I recall was just Brooks Brothers' method to enable their sales staff to distinguish a thirty-five dollar tie from an ninety-five dollar tie (if the tags were missing).

I assumed the practice was industry-wide, but obviously I was in error.

Thanks for illuminating me on this matter.

Best of luck...