It's been 20 Years; release Song of the South

[Big Man]

I remember seeing those old photos of the water fountains labeled "Whites Only" "Colored Only," "Italians Only," "Irish Only," "Polish Only"...

What a crazy time that was....

I remember seeing the actual signs "whites only/colored only", not just pictures of them, and wondering what difference it made who used what bathroom or drank out of what water fountain. I also remember asking my parents about those signs and them telling me that some people were "simple minded idiots" (those who felt signs like that were necessary), and that I should always try to treat EVERYONE with respect.

I grew up in a rather rural area where folks got along (and still do). Sure, there was the "colored section" and the "white section", but as best I knew, it just wasn't a big deal to either race. While our schools were segregated up until I was in the 4th grade, we still all played together after school and never gave our "differences" a second thought. When it became apparent that desegregation was coming, leaders from the black community and the white community came together to work on any issues that may arise. When desegregation came, it was just another day at school for everyone - no big deal. I give a lot of credit, and am very thankful, to the adults in our community at that time who had the foresight to work together to make that transition so smooth.

I'm sure other folks experiences are different, and I can respect how things like old movies, TV shows, cartoons, etc. can be viewed as "racist" by some and not by others. Our challenge is to find that "middle ground" and, as my parents taught me at an early age, to try to treat everyone with respect.

 

[jamespowers]

5) Mexicans and other ethnicities routinely treated as sub par

To be correct, mexicans and hispanics in general were thought of as white and were counted as white for the census until 1980. They never were and still aren't a separate "race." They became "minorityized" later. So if they were treated as subpar then "whites" were indeed being treated as subpar in the age you think disparaged everyone else. I guess they were right up there with the Italians and the Irish races?
Yes, there were also signs in windows that said "No Irish or Italians need apply" below the Help Wanted sign. Everyone has had their day in that negative sun.


Regards to all,

J

 

[MudInYerEye]

There are Italian groups that do protest the cast of the Sopranos marching in the Columbus day parade, and they're routinely laughed off. Dismissed as being ridiculous. I guess calls of racism is only valid for certain groups. The rest of us have to take it in stride.

There was an episode of THE SOPRANOS that addressed the complaints of Italian-American action groups. If memory serves, at a large dinner in Dr. Melfi's house one of the guests voices concern over Italian-Americans consistently being portrayed as criminals in film and television. One of the guests "pshaws" him with something to the effect of you don't hear the Scotch Irish-Americans complaining about the stereotypes perpetuated against them in Westerns.

 

[Lena_Horne]

To be correct, mexicans and hispanics in general were thought of as white and were counted as white for the census until 1980. They never were and still aren't a separate "race." They became "minorityized" later. So if they were treated as subpar then "whites" were indeed being treated as subpar in the age you think disparaged everyone else. I guess they were right up there with the Italians and the Irish races?
Yes, there were also signs in windows that said "No Irish or Italians need apply" below the Help Wanted sign. Everyone has had their day in that negative sun.


Regards to all,

J

That depends on where you were I suppose. In Texas, especially along the border, discrimination was pretty rampant. Such as the case of Mexican-American WWII veterans being denied burial with other war casualities. Or the general discrimination both law-based (persecution by the Rangers) and residential:

"Children having a bath in the back of their slum corral home. People living in the corrals get their water from an outside faucet ...because one faucet serves several families the landlord pays the water fees. Some tenants say the landlord objects to too much bathing, excessive use of water by dirty Mexicans, San Antonio, Texas, 1949"

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/HermosaSuerte/Marron/rwl14646r200011024.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/HermosaSuerte/Marron/rwl14646r20002650.jpg

Living conditions:

"Corral dwellings. This corral of about twenty four units is more than thirty years old. Each unit rents for $8.50 monthly. No gas, no electricity, outside water faucets; eight outside flush type toilets, San Antonio, Texas, 1949"

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/HermosaSuerte/Marron/rwl14646r200071024.jpg

L_H

 

[Lincsong]

Let's see

You can't classify the Boondocks with Song of the South.

Maybe we should worry less about an old film that isn't going to be released anyway (in the US) and take a look at what's going on right now.

[/QUOTE]

Zippity doo dah zippity dey, my oh my what a wonderful day.
versus
Ni$$ize me!

Why is one allowed to be freely broadcast on cable and satellite but the other is banned? Of course we can classify the two. I agree that we should take a look at what's going on right now, but Boondocks wasn't made in 1946 and I thought this place was about the '30s and 40's.

But I do appreciate your participation in the discussion.

 

[Lincsong]

To be correct, mexicans and hispanics in general were thought of as white and were counted as white for the census until 1980. They never were and still aren't a separate "race." They became "minorityized" later. So if they were treated as subpar then "whites" were indeed being treated as subpar in the age you think disparaged everyone else.

That is why the racial lobby gets away with saying that California and Texas were 90% white up to 1980. Let's see; Anthony Quinn, Ginger Rogers, Rita Hayworth, Don Ameche, Desi Arnaz, Ricardo Montalban, Fernando Lamas, Jose Ferrer, Mel Ferrer, James Darren and other Hispanic actors in the 1930's, 1940's and 1950's were all treated subpar. John Wayne's first wife's father was a prominent Los Angeles surgeon (Mexican/American) Then there's that 1960's bombshell Raquel Welsh. Don't make me laugh. Who brought that up? Sure these actors weren't radical nut jobs with "LA RAZA" baseball caps on like Eva Longoria and Edward James Olmos. They took their acting seriously and didn't have to play the race crying game. Let's not get too far off the subject of Song of the South. But, I really like all the comments so far. (with the exception of the individual on my ignore list)

 

[Brad Bowers]

Ginger Rogers was Hispanic? I hadn't heard that before, so I looked her up. IMDb lists her birth name as Virginia Katherine McMath, from Independence, MO.

Just curious.

Brad

 

[Lincsong]

Ginger Rogers was Hispanic? I hadn't heard that before, so I looked her up. IMDb lists her birth name as Virginia Katherine McMath, from Independence, MO.

Just curious.

Weren't her and Rita Hayworth first cousins?

 

[Lincsong]

I stand corrected

I was wrong in my posting that Ginger Rogers was Spanish. I had thought that Ginger Rogers and Rita Hayworth were blood cousins. It turned out that Rita Hayworth's uncle and Ginger Rogers aunt were married. Therefore their children would be half Spanish. Since Rogers and Hayworth are not blood related then Ginger Rogers isn't part Spanish. I stand corrected. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.:cheers1:

 

[The Wolf]

Random thoughts

It's interesting to read different persons thoughts on such a hot-bed topic even if I disagree ( or as I call it: just plain wrong).
One of the tricky things about enjoying the Golden Age is the differrent mind set that was common. The Mantan Moreland actor was definately more common than the Clarence Brooks actor. I'll watch "The Petrified Forest" and be surprised by the non-stereo-typed roles of the black characters then watch "Tarzan in New York" which is a sweet, fun movie and cringe at the Mantan Moreland scene.
If a main character is Asian he is played by Warner Oland (a Swede), Peter Lorre (a Hungarian) etc. but the secondary characters played by Asian actors. While watching a sweet, fun movie, "Lady on a Train" I'll cringe at the line "He had slanty eyes and buck teeth like a Jap."

I was watching an old Tom and Jerry cartoon with my sons a while ago. It ends with the coal delivery going into the house and Tom getting covered in coal dust. When the owner sees Tom and doesn't recognize him, he shuffles and talks like Steppin Fetchit to try to get away. My sons thought it was funny. I ask my boys what Tom was doing to get their view. They didn't get that it was a stereo-type they just thought he pretending to be someone else. Strangely I assumed Tom was black anyway because he sang Louis Jordan and wore a zoot suit in various episodes.

I've enjoyed radio shows and Tv. episodes of "Amos and Andy". Part of what works for is the writing. If you switch Kingfisher and Amos with Ralph and Norton it is still funny. Especially the episode where they are going to open a road side cafe.

My thoughts on "Song of the South": rate it PG like some of Shirley Temple's movie were when released on tape. Have Leonard Maltin do an intro saying "This was made in a time when...". There is a chance that the fond memories and taboo nature of this film will fade when people see it and it land not with a bang but a whimper.

I think actual equality for actors of different types is when they don't have to be any certain way. A black, Asian or gay character could be stupid, smart, brave, cowardly, a leader, a follower, etc. A middle-eastern character could be a bad guy without also having a middle-eastern good guy in the same film because we wouldn't think "He's obviously a bad guy because he's from that region.".

Sincerely,
The Wolf

Although the white people I've known are like "Married with Children"

 

[shamus]

Zippity doo dah zippity dey, my oh my what a wonderful day.
versus
Ni$$ize me!

Why is one allowed to be freely broadcast on cable and satellite but the other is banned? Of course we can classify the two. I agree that we should take a look at what's going on right now, but Boondocks wasn't made in 1946 and I thought this place was about the '30s and 40's.

But I do appreciate your participation in the discussion.

Where did you see it was banned? Really? Banned? Wow. I thought Disney owned it and just didn't release it. Being banned is pretty big. That sounds like a big new story.

While watching a sweet, fun movie, "Lady on a Train" I'll cringe at the line "He had slanty eyes and buck teeth like a Jap."

thats odd you mention that as it brings us back to another thread on that very subject.

 

[Lincsong]

All points of view are welcomed

It's interesting to read different persons thoughts on such a hot-bed topic even if I disagree ( or as I call it: just plain wrong).

I disagree with this assement but your comments are welcomed and encouraged.:cheers1:

If a main character is Asian he is played by Warner Oland (a Swede), Peter Lorre (a Hungarian) etc. but the secondary characters played by Asian actors. While watching a sweet, fun movie, "Lady on a Train" I'll cringe at the line "He had slanty eyes and buck teeth like a Jap."

Oh but, white people you know are like Married with Children? So most white guys are romantic about high school, white wives are dyed red, spandex wearing high heeled horn dogs?

I was watching an old Tom and Jerry cartoon with my sons a while ago. It ends with the coal delivery going into the house and Tom getting covered in coal dust. When the owner sees Tom and doesn't recognize him, he shuffles and talks like Steppin Fetchit to try to get away. My sons thought it was funny. I ask my boys what Tom was doing to get their view. They didn't get that it was a stereo-type they just thought he pretending to be someone else. Strangely I assumed Tom was black anyway because he sang Louis Jordan and wore a zoot suit in various episodes.

Zoot suits? Gruber wore one in McHales Navy and his character was Jewish. Louis Jordan? Do you mean Louis Jourdan? Or Louis Prima? (Prima; the Italian American from New Orleans)

My thoughts on "Song of the South": rate it PG like some of Shirley Temple's movie were when released on tape. Have Leonard Maltin do an intro saying "This was made in a time when...". There is a chance that the fond memories and taboo nature of this film will fade when people see it and it land not with a bang but a whimper.

Good point, I don't agree with the rating or Leonard Maltin part, but put it out there if it flops it flops.

I think actual equality for actors of different types is when they don't have to be any certain way. A black, Asian or gay character could be stupid, smart, brave, cowardly, a leader, a follower, etc. A middle-eastern character could be a bad guy without also having a middle-eastern good guy in the same film because we wouldn't think "He's obviously a bad guy because he's from that region.".

The Middle Eastern Danny Thomas had a sucessful career in movies and television. I don't recall him ever wearing a turban or curly toed shoes. What would be considered an "inter-racial" couple today; Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz is the most successful television show of all time and their studio, Desilu, is responsible for numerous sucessful shows. The very Mexican looking Anthony Quinn played a variety of roles as did Ricardo Montalban and Fernando Lamas. In a Leave it to Beaver episode a Mexican family moves in and the boy, Chuy didn't speak english, but he was dressed properly in a suit and tie and his parents, who both spoke english were portrayed as being professional in a nice dress and the business suit. And let's not forget the Shakespearan performances of the Puerto Rican Jose Ferrer.

Thanks for all the comments. Everyone's has been civil and respectful. Let's keep it going.

 

[Lincsong]

Banned is banned

Where did you see it was banned? Really? Banned? Wow. I thought Disney owned it and just didn't release it. Being banned is pretty big. That sounds like a big new story.

If Disney doesn't release it nor allows others to distribute it then it is effectively bannned. Although Disney owns it, (If Hollywood didn't strong arm Congress into extending the copyright laws it would now be in the public domain and the market would determine its fate.) they are practicing censorship. Let me put this into liberal context; if the Olympic Club in San Francisco doesn't admit women or blacks to their club, although club members have to be recommended and pay huge yearly dues, but the white businessmen discuss business matters and deals at the club then the club is in violation of the interstate commerce clause. Ergo, the club is now in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. (I don't mean to stray off the subject too much when I interjected this particular legal case.):cheers1:

 

[airfrogusmc]

I think the film should be released if not for its artistic value for its historic value. I watched Holiday Inn around Christmas time and there are some parts that really show the way African Americans were portrayed in media back when the film was made. The question does history influence art or does art influence history? I think these films are very important in the way the took a snapshot of the way race was and the way society as a larger whole saw minorities during that time frame. They should be shown and discussed the way we are discussing it here. Things like racism will never change unless we can enter intelligent dialog about it.

Now fast forward to today: a great film on race Crash.

 

[Lincsong]

An animated remake?

I see that in a few weeks there will be an animated version of Brer Rabbits tales. All the voices will be by Black actors. But, I want the 1946 Disney version. This is the 60th anniversary. Release the film!

 

[Lena_Horne]

To reestablish the Little Black Sambo

Others have mentioned that the phrase Sambo has more to do with Indians than the African-American and this record cover from 1950 might just cement that fact:

L_H

*someone else on this forum provided the link, I apologize that I am unable to remember your screen name but thank you in advance.

 

[Lincsong]

I like the tigers at Sambo's

Their food wasn't all that bad. And the tiger's were cool as a kid.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Every Sambo's restaurant had a wonderful, huge lighted sculpture over its counter. The sculpture was made of chunks of brightly colored glass, and these globs of glass were formed to show Sambo, the tiger and their friends. It looked like chunks of multicolored, petrified jello. A nice childhood memory of mine.

 

[Andykev]

Zippedy-doo-dah, Zippedy-who-cares?

We had a Sambo's in Richmond, near where I grew up. It went out of business. It was far better than IHOP, or Dennys. There was a beautiful mural in the restaurant depicting "Little Black Sambo" running, with the scene cleverly showing him being chased by the tiger, and then there was butter,syrup on the pancakes.

Richmond has a very high African American population, and this place was very well visited by EVERYONE. I seem to remember there being a protest of some sort over the "offensive" name of the place, so did they go under from competition, bad economy, or did some ACLU Attorney sue them? I don't know.

Growing up in the Berkeley/Richmond/Oakland/SF area, we had one of the most diverse cultures ANYWHERE. Both racial and political. I thank God for that as I was brought up accepting everyone for WHO they are and not WHAT someone labled them. Me included....remember "Catholics..and Irish need not apply"? Or the JFK election, he was the FIRST "Roman Catholic" and it WAS an issue.

Fortunately we have REAL people in TV, movies, corporations, leadership postions..ie Connie Rice, General Powell..etc.

So, back on TOPIC, who cares about an old movie from DISNEY with Uncle Reemus, singing "zippedy doo dah"? Even in Casablanca, Elsa says (referring to Sam), "tell the boy to come over here". WOW. But that was another TIME. Right? I work for a LARGE agency, and nobody looks at sex or color, havent for a very, very long time. I like that.

 

[Lincsong]

It has a lot of history to Walt Disney

So, back on TOPIC, who cares about an old movie from DISNEY with Uncle Reemus, singing "zippedy doo dah"? Even in Casablanca, Elsa says (referring to Sam), "tell the boy to come over here". WOW. But that was another TIME. Right? I work for a LARGE agency, and nobody looks at sex or color, havent for a very, very long time. I like that.

[/QUOTE]

This was the first Disney film using real, live action people. The film blends animation with live action. It has a good story and ending. It has an Academy Award Winning Song that has become Disney's theme song. It's not just an old movie with Uncle Remus singing. It's a story about a young boy from a broken home in search of his "laughing place" a place he can go and be happy and content. He found that "laughing place" at Uncle Remus' cabin. It's a good story and in the movie Johnny and Ginny don't look at Uncle Remus' color either. Plus this is it's 60th anniversary.:cheers1: