Magnoli's suits.

[Daniel Riser]

Have you boys seen this...

https://host385.ipowerweb.com/~indyprop/osCommerce/catalog/

A chinatown three piece with half belt back and a two button double breasted.

The details still need to be worked out but he's finally answering a call so many have attempted.

The half belt is there for looks, it doesn't look functional. It reminds me of a horizontal version of the Indy pleat like the top and bottom were folded in and stitched to form a "belt". It doesn't look like it's actually hugging the waist like it should.The vest should be a little higher cut with four pockets instead of two. The arm holes are like modern suits (insert furious Matt Deckard comment) and the drape seems off which proves that modern fabric cannot hold it's own in a fight against the vintage stuff!

but... with all that said, at least Magnoli is responding to the public's needs.

 

[Andykev]

Photos not that good

I looked at the pics of the double breasted...and the pics were not that good. I hope the suit is better looking in person. I like the style, but something just doesn't look right. Does anyone else feel that way?

 

[Daniel Riser]

I actually like the color of the fabric, but there is something off about the drape. Lauren Henline, who is a seamstress, noticed that the back of the shoulder seemed... ill-balanced.

The lapels are much too modern for my taste. I prefer the straighter lapels on a vintage double breasted... but that's just me.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I looked at the pics of the double breasted...and the pics were not that good. I hope the suit is better looking in person. I like the style, but something just doesn't look right. Does anyone else feel that way?

Same here. The balance and silhouette is all off.

 

[Lauren]

Yup. Me too.

 

[EL COLORADO]

Commrades,

Wake up men.
The cold hard reality is this.
You will not find the fabrical equivalent of our beloved vintage, from any tailor. Anywhere.
Why?
Because material is no longer loomed the same.

The threads and wools of our vintage suits is denser, thicker and weightier.
They had "body" as a result, .... from which the 'drape' naturally expressed itself.
All modern day fabrics are thinner, lighter and most often blended.
So they they wont 'drape'. They cant.

No matter how skilled with a needle you may be.

Let me put it this way, painting on a canvas will not get the same results as painting on a t-shirt. No matter how good the artist.

Further,..to loom the fabric the old way would make the yardage mind bogglingly expensive.

Its just the bottom line, cheaper, quicker, way of the times.
Just like all buildings today are made out of glass and steel instead of ornated limestone.
Just like a cars are made from fiberglass and plastic instead of steel and chrome.
And in a national society of jeans and sneakers,...who cares?


Thems the facts.






EL C.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Commrades,

Wake up men.
The cold hard reality is this.
You will not find the fabrical equivalent of our beloved vintage, from any tailor. Anywhere.
Why?
Because material is no longer loomed the same.
EL C.

I don't think the wool used is the problem with these suits at all. The problem is how they are cut. In the double-breasted model the problem seems to mainly exist in the chest/shoulders area. The lapels are the wrong style and size for that type of suit, they throw the balance of the jacket off. The way the jacket is cut from the shoulders through the chest also looks wrong to me. The chest area looks sort of bulbous and rounded, like it is too big for rest of the jacket. Overall it looks almost like someone took features from 3 or 4 different suits of different styles and threw them together into one suit.

As for the material, the problem isn't that today's wool is of a lesser quality. The reverse is actually true. Suits are being made of material which was basically impossible to have been made in the 30s or 40s. The problem is that most modern suits are made to be worn year-round in climate-controlled offices. Thus there is not much of a market for suits of heavy wool for winter and thus those weights of cloth aren't made so much.

If you are having a bespoke suit made and want to have a heavier material it isn't a huge problem finding them although the patterns may be slightly limited. The use of sportcoat or topcoat weight wools will result in a vintage drape for example, while it is still easy to find summer-weight wool for summer and spring suits.

 

[Lauren]

Actually, both. But the sleeves aren't right. Making them hang right will make it look a heck of a lot better. Not period, mind you, but like a better suit.

For the guy that wants a vintage "look" these aren't too bad... maybe it will lead them to actual vintage, to being educated in the fit, cut and fabric of a vintage suit and that's not a bad thing...

 

[EL COLORADO]

I don't think the wool used is the problem with these suits at all. The problem is how they are cut.

Looks like both to me! Like dig those tissue paper ruffles on the jacket sleeves and pant legs! Yowza!

The problem is that most modern suits are made to be worn year-round in climate-controlled offices. Thus there is not much of a market for suits of heavy wool for winter and thus those weights of cloth aren't made so much.

Not much of a market??
Im sure not in the Lone Star. But in the frigid Northern corporate capitols of Chicago, New York, DC, Boston, etc...where most folks publicly commute. Theres plenty market.

But hey, whatever. Amen to the fellas and gals that can find their dream threads,.. modern or vintage.




EL C.

 

[Daniel Riser]

Right. It isn't just the material. Matt Deckard's tailored suits are very accurate with excellent drape but that's because he used modern overcoat weights.

 

[Sefton]

For the guy that wants a vintage "look" these aren't too bad... maybe it will lead them to actual vintage, to being educated in the fit, cut and fabric of a vintage suit and that's not a bad thing...

I agree, not a bad thing at all. If more men start wearing suits that at least attempt the look of vintage perhaps the choices off the rack will improve (Even a superficial resemblance is better than nothing) Finding a true vintage suit has so far, proved elusive...

 

[Veronica Parra]

I agree with everything that everyone has said so far. (Can this be possible?)

I've seen several -- but only several -- vintage '30s suits that were made by the finest U.S. tailors of that time. The fabrics compared well to the best Piana wools of today. We almost never see the best vintage menswear because there was so little of it made, and even less survives.

About 10 years ago, I went to many estate sales in the L.A./Pasadena area. I had three pieces of luck that will never be repeated: I found in the closet of a doctor's home a three-piece double-breasted suit made by "Sy Devore" of Las Vegas in 1951 for ... Dean Martin. That's right: custom made for Dean Martin just when his film career was taking off. The suit was amazing. It was a slightly trimmer, more streamlined version of the early '40s silhouette: the lapels were still wide, but somehow more ... Italian.

Also hanging in that cramped closet -- along with tons of awful polyester -- was a light grey flannel, single-breasted, peak lapel suit custom-made by the Warner Bros. wardrobe dept. in 1957 for ... Roger Moore. (He must have been very young at the time, and tall too: the suit was a 42 L.) Now, you'd think that a late '50s suit would have a boxy cut and thinnish lapels. Not this one! It looked like something Carey Grant would have worn in an early '40s film. The lightweight flannel was the finest I've ever felt: supremely soft and drapey. And the tailoring was superb. The true hallmark of a great tailor is the way he makes trousers. The pleated trousers on this suit were cut, assembled and darted in such a fluid way that they hid human defects and accentuated nature's gifts.

When I moved to Chile, I sold the Roger Moore suit to Art Fawcett. I ended up selling the Dean Martin suit to a TV sitcom writer. Things come, things go ...

One more find: a swallowtail coat custom-made in London in 1913 for a pre-presidential Herbert Hoover, the very year he entered public service by promoting commerce between the U.S. and Britain. The coat was in perfect condition: it looked new. I was struck at the fineness of the thick fabric's quality: a black cheviot wool that's just beautiful. The entire lining is pure silk. The tailoring isn't rigid, it molds to the body while paradoxically giving it room to move (and keeping hidden the way that was achieved).

Believe it or not, I found this coat (and one of Hoover's hats, a British flat-topped bowler similar to Churchill's) at an estate sale in, of all places, South Pasadena. Turns out that one of Herbert Hoover's sons settled there; when that son died in the 1960s, his family held an estate sale and a neighbor bought a lot of clothes -- including some belonging to the ex-president. It was at this neighbor's own estate sale that I found Hoover's hat and coat. I also bought a tailcoat and a pair of linen golf knickers belonging to his son.

Now that coat I still have! I sold the hat and the other clothes.

-- Marc

 

[Flitcraft]

Not familiar with Magnoli's at all.
Does anyone here have any experience with them.
Didn't Jack Nicholson's suit in Chinatown have a back pleat?

 

[Mycroft]

I wish him the best of luck with his buiness, and I may order a millitary bag and journal for my safari to Africa.

 

[Veronica Parra]

Didn't Jack Nicholson's suit in Chinatown have a back pleat?

You bet it did. CHINATOWN was one of the first Hollywood films to faithfully utilize vintage '30s clothing, as opposed to costumes "modernized" by studio wardrobe depts. CHINATOWN didn't try to give a contemporary twist to period costuming. Before then, every Hollywood film would "modernize" costuming, make-up and hairstyling to make period films "accessible" to modern audiences. Think GUYS AND DOLLS. Think CLEOPATRA (the '60s and the '30s versions). Think BONNIE & CLYDE. Think HELLO, DOLLY. Better yet, try to forget them!

This mania for modernizing continued into the late '70s. THE GREAT GATSBY was Ralph Lauren laying an egg: it's a small step from that to Travolta's white disco suit. Even THE GODFATHER mixed vintage with groovy, especially in the Vegas scenes. Strangely enough, THE GODFATHER, PART II got it right: just about all the costuming there looks authentic, and most of it was real vintage. Another exception was BUGSY MALONE, which (according to its costumer) utilized 100% period vintage.

Things really changed in the early 1980s, when such films as RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK and THE COTTON CLUB were quite authentic when it came to their costuming. THE UNTOUCHABLES dropped the ball a bit, but that's what happens when you ask a famous clothing designer (Georgio Armani here) to design your costumes. In more recent times, BILLY BATHGATE, LAST MAN STANDING, SEABISCUIT and even OH BROTHER, WHERE ART THOU achieved high standards in authentic '30s period costuming.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Before then, every Hollywood film would "modernize" costuming, make-up and hairstyling to make period films "accessible" to modern audiences. Think GUYS AND DOLLS. Think CLEOPATRA (the '60s and the '30s versions). Think BONNIE & CLYDE. Think HELLO, DOLLY. Better yet, try to forget them!

Don't forget the 60's hair styles in "Dr. Zhivago!"

 

[Veronica Parra]

What was it with David Lean and hairstyles? The same weirdness happened in LAWRENCE OF ARABIA. Peter O'Toole's Lawrence sports a forelock that's sweeping the ground.

Still, the costuming in both films is first rate for the time.

 

[BellyTank]

Tweeds!

Modern tweeds could do the job, especially Harris/Lewis.
Heavy stuff-

He should do a Norfolk.

The modern 'Supers' are too light.

B
T

 

[Lauren]

I have to say, Veronica and Marc, that you have some of the funniest posts. I think my co-workers must wonder what's wrong with me when I'm chuckling... Darn flash and photoshop are so funny!!

 

[Brad Bowers]

I think they look nice, but then, the only experience I've had with vintage clothing is reading it here. I'll never find a vintage suit in a 46 Short coat and 42 trousers, so I have to take modern. I do think the fabrics could be a little heavier, though. They seem like they would tear easily.

His prices seem good. More than I can afford right now, but reasonable nonetheless.

Brad