The Nationalist Myth, War and "Vintage"

[HoosierDaddy]

...felt that. Then spit on and called 'Baby Killer'...

 

[AmateisGal]

Trying to compare America's collective and divergent mindset during WWII to that of America today is futile. I've heard first person how the war for that generation occupied their waking moments for four years (the Americans, obviously) but seriously, do you know what's going on in Afghanistan right now?

Do you know what troops have been committed to Africa? Or did you just change the channel?

21st century America might have had it's military at war since 2001, but unless you have someone you care about in uniform, you might as well admit it : the rest of you are at the mall.

You have no vested interests, nor could you even name what National Guard units local to you are currently deployed in harm's way.

Is this a condemnation? Not really. More like a plea, to pay attention.

If you can't do that, at least send these folks a couple of bucks.

http://www.uso.org/


Been here, felt this.

Excellent, and humbling, points, Story. I fully admit to not being nearly as up to date on our troops and what they're doing in Afghanistan and other places as I should be. I need to remedy that.

 

[Undertow]

Certainly war is war, whether it's in Germany, Afghanistan or wherever you like, and it's full of horrendous things not worth discussing in any circle. The only thing that changes from conflict to conflict, beside technology, is the nationality of those fighting. However, in the case of America's involvement in Asia and the Middle East, we have an all-volunteer army of professional soldiers versus the drafted army of WWII. Thus, it's not necessarily as likely that the average guy or gal is going to have some kind of direct connection with these conflicts.

As I was saying earlier [regarding the wars started in 2003], people were drunk with patriotic madness waving flags and eating freedom fries, but now they've almost entirely forgotten that there are still US troops in another country fighting. Do you chalk up the public's seeming ignorance to our current conflicts as callousness? Or would you say the American people are simply tired of war?

 

[LizzieMaine]

As was said away back at the beginning, if it isn't *their* kids doing the fighting, if they aren't living every day themselves looking over their shoulders at the draft board, they just don't see any reason why they *should* care. "Isn't that what we pay the troops to do? Hey, there's a good show on TV tonite."

 

[sheeplady]

I never ate freedom fries. I must have missed out.

But honestly, not everybody was flag waving following 9/11. I was in college and we had a vigil later that week. They played the national anthem on the clocktower bells and there were a few public criticisms of that choice, mainly because it was seen as war mongering and dividingtax by a few.

I also have to add that 9/11 is not your typical event. Plenty of citizens in countries around the world (some who we wouldn't call the US's closest allies) came out in droves to support those in the US. The combination of having an event shown in real time with so many ordinary citizens injured or killed made it more unique than any other event. Almost everyone I knew knew soeone who worked in the WTC.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The thing is, anybody can wave a flag. You can go down to the pet store and buy a parrot and in a couple of days time you can teach him to say "God Bless America." But that parrot will never understand the *meaning* of patriotism, and the words don't make him patriotic, any more than just marching around waving a flag does.

Americans in WW2 were expected to back up their patriotism in ways that counted. It wasn't enough to stand around saying "Yeah, I support the troops, yessiree." They were expected to *join* those troops, or if they were too old or too young, they were expected to contribute in some other meaningful way to the war effort. They were expected to pay the highest tax rates that had ever been imposed, and they were expected to top off that by putting at least ten percent of their gross income into war bonds. They put their money where their flag-waving was, figuratively and literally.

Which, to me, is as it should be. If all you do is walk around telling people how patriotic you are and point to the sticker on your car as proof, but you don't do anything more than that -- well, you're no better than that parrot.

 

[nulty]

I read Chris Hedges or try to every monday.....to me knowing his disdain for war and it's aggrandizement his message lies in the notion that Corporations have placed a wedge between the human experience and it's relation to society. And the reference to low Culture would be the constant pounding of the marketing that keeps the corporate finger in your wallet. In this way , I take it, in the immediate aftermath of a war the frenzy which causes people to even come up with ideas like freedom fries takes on a less salient meaning and we wonder how we could have behaved that way. I've never been one to associate my vintage obsessions with The War..I relate to to the time period more through the day to day struggle my relations enured through the depression and then the hardships of living with War......all so the lineage could survive...

 

[Story]

As I was saying earlier [regarding the wars started in 2003],

Plural? Involvement in Afghanistan started in late 2001. Like I was saying..

As was said away back at the beginning, if it isn't *their* kids doing the fighting, if they aren't living every day themselves looking over their shoulders at the draft board, they just don't see any reason why they *should* care. "Isn't that what we pay the troops to do? Hey, there's a good show on TV tonite."

Exactly so.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/08/military-health-care-sequestration-tricare-CSBA-082812w/

 

[Undertow]

Plural? Involvement in Afghanistan started in late 2001. Like I was saying...

Please note the Last edited by Undertow; Yesterday at 02:34 PM at the bottom of my post you were quoting. I entered the [regarding the wars started in 2003] in brackets to reflect the entry as an edit. It was done at a glance and not intended to be etched in stone. I thought it would be nice to reference what I meant by, "As I was saying earlier", so that it didn't seem like I was coming out of left field.

If any fellow Loungers plan on quoting me for their homework, you'd better go back and scribble out that 2003 and reenter it as Oct.2001/Mar.2003, or you could get a red-pen error on your paper. :rolleyes2:

In any case, I know the importance of those dates and I'm sure nothing was intended to be taken personally. I'll be more vigilant in my edits.