"Toffee" Optimo Signature Line

[Nathan Flowers]

Andykev, I know that Fedora can get a natural all beaver body, because Sharpetoys has one from him that he likes a lot. Perhaps he can make a thread with some pictures of it (hint hint)


Anyway guys, the reason my hat looks kinda rough in the last 4 pictures is because I intended it to look that way. In the days of yore, a man walked into a hat retailer, and saw this:

Yes, tons of hats, most with open crowns. Each buyer could personalize his own crease (AKA "bash") exactly the way he wanted it. When he was done with his creation, it very often looked like one of the ones in this picture:

All of those creases and wrinkles in the crown look good, and like the hat is something to be used, not some pristine looking museum piece that has a perfect center dent at the exact correct height, and symmetrical front dents from the pinch.

That's what I am usually going for with my hats, and until this all beaver felt, I have been unable to find a hat that replicates this "haphazardness" so well.

Anyway, I decided to spend a bunch of time with my family today, so no new pics or mic measurements as of yet, but don't worry, as they are coming soon.

Hope you all had a happy one.

 

[fedoralover]

You are absolutely right about the fedora's (back in the day) looking more out of shape and wrinkled than what it seems we like to wear now. I'm guilty of this, I like symmetry and want my fedora's center dent perfectly down the middle and each side dent exactly the same. But I know this isn't how they were worn originally.

I went back to the Golden Age and looked at Bogarts fedora's again. And they are anything but perfect in the way he shaped them. In fact if I didn't know they were his fedora's and I saw them on ebay I'd probably think they were kinda frumpy looking. But in reality that's what gave them character in the first place.

But then again maybe symmetry is my style, it still boils down to what each of us like and how we like our hats to look on us individually. So I'm still going to try and get my side bashes even and the center dent exactly down the middle if I can. I can't help it, it's how I like them.

regards fedoralover

 

[Nathan Flowers]

And you certainly are entitled to do so, Fedoralover. The hats I have seen you wearing suit you well, so keep up the good work

 

[Nathan Flowers]

Okay, I broke out my micrometer today, and here's my measurement data.

Akubra Federation: 1.8-2.0mm, depending on where measurement is taken.

Vintage Champ fedora. Looks to be mid 40's 1.3mm

Vintage Stetson western style from late 1930s (when my grandfather bought it) 1.4mm

Phantom Blue (50% hare, 50% beaver) Optimo 1.2mm

Indy Brown (49% beaver, 49% nutria, 2% hare) Optimo 1.15mm

Natural Nutria (49% beaver, 49% nutria, 2% hare) Optimo 1.1mm

Toffee "Signature Line" (100% beaver) Optimo 1.35mm

A couple new pictures in natural sunlight will be up soon.

 

[Nathan Flowers]

Few more pictures taken in middle of the day sunlight. I think they do more to show the buttery softness of the felt.

 

[Kentucky Blues]

Great pics, Nathan!

 

[Fedora]

That hat looked nice until you showed the close up shots of the felt. Honestly guys, this is a poorly pounced hat, and does not look like it has a high beaver content. I know my beaver, as that is mostly what I make. Here is a modern beaver felt, that I pounced for only around 15 minutes with 400 grit paper. Can you see the difference. The thing about high content beaver felt, is it takes minimum pouncing to make it look good. Check out 3 pics here that I just took. Send that hat to Art so he can pounce the thing. Please don't take this wrong, but good gosh almighty, I have to call em' as I see em".FedoraMy pouncing

 

[Nathan Flowers]

It's pounced the same as the two vintage hats I have compared it to. If not beaver, then I can't determine what it is. I've found no guard hairs in it, it doesn't feel like rabbit, most certainly doesn't feel like wool, and doesn't feel like the blends I have. It feels most like the vintage beavers I have held.

I don't really see a difference here: (your photo is unedited, I just spliced it in with one I just took.)

 

[fedoralover]

OUCH!!!

 

[Fedora]

Yeah, that photo does not show the fuzziness at all. But I know what that felt looks like, as it looks like the Optimo rabbit blend, and the nutria beaver blend. The fuzziness of the finish is apparent in the daylight photos. I took my pics 2 feet away, with a flash. I will have to get some in the daylight to prove my point. I will do so. Then you will see what I am talking about.

That hat is a beautiful hat Zohar, don't misunderstand me, but I have never seen a high beaver content hat finish out like yours unless you used 100 grit paper on the felt to fuzz it up. I am serious, and not trying to downrate your hat at all. I am obsessed with felt, like some folks are obsessed with leather jackets. To me, it just looks like he did not pounce it enough to get a smooth finish. And, he should have.


What you vintage lovers need to do is to get Art to buy up some 100 gram beaver bodies, and make you guys some hats. My finest vintage hats can only be copied if you use real beaver. Nothing else can do it. Art could take a pure lightweight body, and make you guys a hat that would have you selling the brand some like so well. Graham told someone here that before he started having guys off the internet buy his hats, the question of felt content was never asked. We are a weird bunch.LOL But, in order to replicate the fine vintage felt, you better use the highest quality fur available, ie, beaver. Modern felting is not what it was back in the day, so you have to compensate with a higher quality fur.

I don't have a dog in this race, but I am just astounded that you guys would spend those kinds of bucks on a underpounced hat. It boggles the mind. And that you would spend that kind of money on a hat that should be made of a very high end felt. Guys, on a smooth finish hat, it should not be fuzzy like this hat. Something ain't right here. This looks like a brillo pad.

 

[Fedora]

Go to my first link, then after you see the first pic, hit "previous", and go to pic labeled as "beaver2" Now, go to the bottom of the pic and clink on get original photo. Once you are there you can enlarge it to get a microscopic view of the felt. Some fuzz, yes, at that magnification, but is yours fuzzier that this? I could be in error, and I will get some pics in the sun tomorrow. I just know what the other two lines of felt from that company looks like, in hand, and this new hat has that same look, going by the pics. regards, Fedora

 

[Nathan Flowers]

You're entitled to your opinion. To me, all felt has a certain degree of fuzziness to it, and this hat has less so than the others that I have.

Educate me; take a picture of your pouncing in the noonday sun to your face, with the macro on at an angle like that, and let's see what it looks like.

It won't let me see your original picture. You'll have to edit it within the album properties.

 

[Fedora]

Educate me; take a picture of your pouncing in the noonday sun to your face, with the macro on at an angle like that, and let's see what it looks like.

I look forward to providing the pics tomorrow, if the sun comes out. Is the finish basically like your others from this company, or is it a finer, less fuzzy finish?

You're entitled to your opinion.

I think you will see that this goes beyond a simple opinion. It will be an observable fact. I know what my hat looks like in the sun, and it ain't like that one. That one looks just like the other Optimos that I have owned and reblocked. regards, Fedora

 

[Nathan Flowers]

This one is less fuzzy than my previous hats from Graham. I think it's just the angle, light, and the fact that it was taken from roughly 3 inches away with the macro setting on that make it look as "poorly" as you think.

I'm pleased with all aspects the hat no matter what opinions of the finish are, so feel free to say what you like,.

Cheers, Z

 

[Fedora]

I'm pleased with all aspects the hat no matter what opinions of the finish are, so feel free to say what you like,.

Thanks, Zohar! I am just passing on my observations, and I will admit, it may be the lighting. I will post some pics when this rain moves out of the South. If my pics don't show this fuzz, under bright sunlight, then opinion moves toward facts. It is just that I have seen the other two lines of hats, and they are fuzzy. Too fuzzy for a good pounced hat. But, heck, you guys should know this if you have seen the fine vintage hats. With that being said, not all vintage hats are fine, but some were.

On the other two lines mentioned, they either have been underpounced, or the felt is not capable of attaining a fine finish. It is one or the other. I have not tried to pounce out the fuzzy finish on the ones that I have reblocked, and it may be you can't pounce it out like I like to see. I dunno.

Now, if my hat does not show this fuzz, I still say you guys need to spend your money more wisely, and give Art the business.

My impressions of the other two mentioned lines is this. Top notch workmanship, mediocre felt. Sure, it is thin felt, zero stiffener in the crowns, but thin, unstiffened felt while vintage looking, still does not equate with a high quality felt. At those prices, it should be top of the line felt. OK, I will duck!!LOL regards, Fedora

 

[Nathan Flowers]

Hey, you don't have to worry about me not patronizing Art; I have been buying hats from him for quite some time now, and will continue to do so into the future. The gray hat in the above pics is one of his creations.

 

[Nathan Flowers]

What about the hat you sent to the QM? Was that one void of fuzzieness?

Perhaps Dalexs or Sergei or other folks that felt up the felt can give their impressions of the fuzzness.

 

[Fedora]

What about the hat you sent to the QM? Was that one void of fuzzieness?

Yeah, it probably had a little fuzz on the brim as I pounced it very little. The reason? I decided to send a hat as a door prize a couple of days before the summit. Hence, the hat was rushed from the block job to the ribbon installation. But, it was much less fuzzier than the rabbit blend optimo, and even the beaver/nutria blend that feels like wool to me, as was very fuzzy. So, I figured compared to a 400 buck optimo, it was a much finer finished hat. I put it on the block, Wed. night, pulled it off too early the next day(of which I mentioned to Sergei) and mailed it that same day, overnight at the cost of 80 bucks shipping. But, even with the rush job, I knew that if anyone appreciated fine felt, this would catch their eye. I have had a couple of guys email me, that went over the hat with a fine toothed comb. Perhaps one of them will chime in.

Zohar, I will be glad to mail you one of my hats to compare the finish, once the rush gets over and I have some spare time to make a hat that is not spoken for. You can then examine both in person, and make your decision. I would expect you to post the results of course. I would not do this if I did not know pure beaver has minimal fuzz, if you pounce it right. And that is just my point. I can prove to you what I am saying, if you want to get ready to eat that 600 buck hat.LOL I have never seen an Optimo that was not fuzzy, like those modern borsalinos. Maybe not as bad, but still unacceptable to me.

I know some of you guys take any critisism of Optimo in a personal way. Personally, I think the workmanship is top notch on those hats, but the felt is rather course and fuzzy. Nothing wrong with fuzz, I guess, but I don't like it. I have reblocked several beaver'nutria blends, and they had a course wooly feel to the felt. I have never seen a high beaver content hat that had that wooly, course feel to it.

I can prove my point, if you want to take the chance. The offer stands. Regards, Fedora

 

[Andykev]

I think it is the CAMERA

I am not going to comment on beaver vs. rabbit or whatever at this point.

I have another observaton. PHOTOGRAPHY. Especially digital photos.

I just examined my newest Optimo hat with a magnifying glass, and a 2.5x and a 5.0x jewlers loop.

With the naked eye, the hat is soft, silky, and uniform in finish. It is absolutely superb in it's finish.

I used the different degrees of magnification and suprise! Each more powerful lens made the view "appear" more fuzzy.

So is it the camera? I tried this on my vintage hats, the coveted ones from early Borsalino, and the "Silver Beaver 50" that I have.

Same effect.

Talking over the phone can go on forever. You have to HOLD the hat and COMPARE in person.

I would not discuss men's suits in a similar fashion. No two are alike.

 

[Kentucky Blues]

I agree with ya Kev...nice new avatar, by the way