Waxing an M65 jacket? Advice needed...

[Mr Badger]

Hey folks, a good friend of mine has just nabbed hisself a very tidy US Army M65 jacket which, by the look of the Talon zippers, was actually issued sometime pre-1970... given the tendency for it to, as us Brits of a certain age say, "tip it down" (rain) at every opportunity here in the historic (but quite boring) city of Bath, my friend's wondering could he waterproof it (the jacket, not the city) with some Barbour-type wax? Any advice imparted on this thorn (proof) issue would be most appreciated...

 

[JohnnyDollar]

Scotchguard spray is what we used when I first joined the army.

 

[JanSolo]

Barbour wax is excellent! It's fully synthetic and since 2002 odourless. You need to pre-heat it in hot water and apply it with a sponge NOT a piece of cloth. A paint brush is excellent too. For a super even "factory finish" a hot hair dryer is very much recommended. (In fact don't wax that jacket without a hair dryer!)
Waxing an untreated M-65 may take up to 2-3 hours if you want to get a perfect and even result (cuffs, pockets, hood, bi-swing gromets etc) Your friend should be prepared to buy TWO cans as the heavy cotton blend of an M-65 will absorb at least one full can and nobody wants an uneven amateur finish on such a cool jacket. For the finishing touch he can mix a good lump of wax with white spirit until it's completely dissolved and then apply it with a spray bottle.
I've waxed and re-waxed at least a dozen jackets in my life and the results are best if you don't rush it and really take your time. Especially with the hair dryer! A plastic covered table or a huge towel to cover table or floor is also needed.

Remember: A perfect factory finish is easy to achieve if you work step by step.

-Pre-heat the wax in a pot of really hot water...leave it there during use and make sure it stays liquid all the time
-Apply with sponge, start with the smallest panels i.e. pockets, hood, by-swing gussets etc.
-Once it's evenly spread use the hair dryer to melt it in completely. The capillary force of the fibres will help to distribute the wax as long as it stays liquid.
-Go over the jacket several times and apply more wax to eliminate lighter spots, make good use of the hair dryer
-A warm place is NOT enough to get an even result....

-Good luck! May the electricity bill be with you!

 

[Tony B]

Long time lurcher who has finally seen something I can comment on.

What Jan said is the recomended way but an even better way to do it is heat the jacket a bit at a time with the hair drier just before applying the wax so you are not putting hot wax onto cool fabric and having it solidify as you try to spread it around, and you can get a thinner coat of wax that way as well so it will be waterproof but not too greasy.......is saves a hell of a lot of time as well.

Apparently barbour use heated tables for their rewaxing service for the same effect, and I read somewhere that their staff get about 6-7 minutes to do each jacket....good luck trying to match that.

Another thing barbour say that if the wax has totally gone you can't rewax a jacket as the wax can straight through and ruin the lining and this does seem correct but one way around this that I found when waxing an old unlined windproof (SAS smock) was to give it a dose of fabsil first so that when you waxed it the wax could be worked into the cloth but didn't go though.

Regards Tony

 

[KyleK]

I'm glad this question has been asked!
I have a Barbour Eskdale Vest - black cotton quilted, polyamide insulation I think. Not a bulky vest at all. This is it, but in red : http://www.sierratradingpost.com/barbour-eskdale-vest-microfiber-insulated-for-men~p~54711/
It's eight or nine years old and still going strong aside from a few loose threads here and there. Does anyone think I could wax it in the manner previously discussed? If it were a bit more water resistant I'd be wearing it everyday in the spring and fall.
My concerns would be the wax soaking through the cotton and somehow ruining the insulation. It's a discontinued item so replacing it would be difficult.
Thanks for any input!

 

[Mr Badger]

Thanks folks, I'll pass the knowledge on!

 

[Seb Lucas]

I would say it's a risk to wax any old cotton jacket. I've seen people ruin a denim jacket and a car coat that way. Generally speaking the cotton fabric they wax is woven in a particular way that helps to facilitiate the wax bonding with the fabric. Duck cotton should be okay, but not a twill weave. Try it only of there's nothing at stake, otherwise Scotch guard the thing as they used to do over here with similar army jackets.

But if he tries it and it works okay, let us know.

 

[subject101]

Any picture of a waxed m-65? It must look really weird.

 

[O-zone]

Some good answers here, but as I've just done a bit of experimenting with this sort of thing, I’d like to add a few points:

I’ll start with a caveat. I love waxed cotton, but to be honest it is not the most practical of materials. It’s not really waterproof, so if it’s really pouring down, you’ll still get wet. It doesn’t breathe well at all, which you’ll quickly notice on a warm day. When it’s cold, the waxed finish seems to transfer the cold to (and through) the lining much faster than untreated cotton. If you decide to go ahead with the project you’re likely to end up with a jacket that’s cold when it’s cold, hot when it’s hot and which will feel slightly damp (from sweat or rain) most of the time.

That said, I happen to like the smell, feel and look of waxed cotton, so I've decided I can live with its limitations. I’ve had numerous waxed jackets in the past (mostly Barbour) and just finished re-waxing a satchel and decided to try waxing a pair of Carthartt Double Front Dungarees and a Mister Freedom Mulholland Master Jacket. The re-waxing was simple and straight forward (it took about half an hour), but waxing a previously unwaxed item is considerably trickier. First, there’s a reason Barbours are made of lightweight (mostly 8oz.) fabric. Heavier materials suck up an inordinate amount of dressing and take ages to fully impregnate. The 12oz. Carhartts required two coatings and took up about 2 ½ tins /half a litre of dressing and some four and a half hours of work! Also, as Seb pointed out, the weave matters. The Carhartts are completely impregnated with Barbour Thornproof dressing, but the weave is loose enough that water still enters from the outside and additionally the dressing is not retained by the fabric and mostly ends up waterproofing my legs and boxers. :eeek: While I like the look of the Carhartts, from a functional point of view I’d call this test a fail.

The Mulholland Master, on the other hand, was a success. I applied two full coatings of wax to the 14 oz. tightly woven Jungle Fabric and tried the jacket on in the rain. I still had a little water penetrate the shoulders and outer arms, so I took my dad’s advice and applied one more layer to only those parts that would be exposed to the most intense rain. Apparently this is how they used to proof their gear before Gore-Tex, the idea being that the whole garment would be lightly waxed and still breathe a bit and only those parts that really need the extra protection would get the full treatment. The end result took some eight hours and some .8 litres (four 200ml tins) of Thronproof dressing to complete. The brown jacket has a subtle two-tone look from the differing amounts of wax, which I quite like. It does keep out all but the heaviest rain and is only slightly stifling on warmer days.
A few things I noticed about the process:

1. Lining is not an issue, as long as you work carefully. I didn’t have the dressing seep through into the lining at any point, apparently the capillary effect of the cotton fibers is enough to keep it in the fabric itself. This might not, however, be the case with considerably lighter fabrics, which become impregnated much faster. Use a sponge or lint free cloth to apply the dressing. Anything else will leave residue. Do be careful not to let any wax drip off your sponge onto the lining!
2. Heating the fabric before applying the dressing like Jan suggested is ideal. I used a hair dryer to begin with, but being a Finn I decided to just carry the entire jacket into a 90°C sauna and work on it there. Worked like a charm! All I needed to do was wipe it down with the dressing and leave it on a hanger for a couple of hours. Perfect finish, minimum fuss and MUCH faster than the hair dryer! ;-)
3. Newly waxed clothes will shed some wax for a while, so don't wear them with your Sunday best clothes or throw the on the rack next to your nicest vintage suit!

Mr Badger, I think an m65 would be a great candidate for waxing! The fabric isn't too heavy, though I suspect it may need more than two tins of dressing. The cut and design are great and it even has a hood. The removable lining makes it wonderfully straightforward to apply the dressing and is thick enough to offset the cooling effects of waxed cotton when it gets a bit nippier. I say your friend should go for it! If he does, please post pictures, I’d love to see how it turns out!

KyleK, I’d probably not try to wax the Eskdale vest, or use something that’s not quite as runny as Thornproof Dressing to minimise the risk of penetrating the outer shell. Maybe Fjällräven Greenland wax might do the trick?

 

[JanSolo]

Thanks for your insight! I know those double logger pants and I can imagine that they would take a lot of wax. I really like the Mullholland Master. A great jacket I would love to own. Ah, sauna!!! What a great idea!!!

 

[Mr Badger]

Thanks very much everybody – my friend's really impressed by the depth of knowledge here on the FL, as I always am... think he's decided not to risk waxing the M65, but if he does, I'm sure that he'll follow y'all's sage advice and I'll be posting a follow-up report...

 

[O-zone]

Jan, I've really enjoyed your posts in the past, especially those on your Aero jackets. I have two myself and they are wonderful. Even compared to the Aero's I find that the Mulholland Master is my favourite jacket and I highly recommend it. If you decide to get one, drop me a PM and I'll give you a hint on how you can save a bit of money.

 

[Edward]

I would say it's a risk to wax any old cotton jacket. I've seen people ruin a denim jacket and a car coat that way. Generally speaking the cotton fabric they wax is woven in a particular way that helps to facilitiate the wax bonding with the fabric. Duck cotton should be okay, but not a twill weave. Try it only of there's nothing at stake, otherwise Scotch guard the thing as they used to do over here with similar army jackets.

But if he tries it and it works okay, let us know.

That would be my feeling too.