How do you date a hat?

[fluteplayer07]

I think I read two letters in rlk's reply...

An "N" and an "O."

;0

Well, I try my best... [huh]

 

[rlk]

Its a place to start further exploration when used wisely....

1936

 

[Alex]

Is there a thread for dating straws?

 

[rlk]

Is there a thread for dating straws?

That makes felts simple by comparison. Styles were developed over a 100 years ago and most were continuously made. The sweatbands are more varied and different than the felts. Some makes the size tag style may help. Very old ones(pre WW2) have some of the same sweatband dating clues. Certain stingy brims were mostly produced later 50's through the 60's. Particular ribbon or Puggaree(pleated fabric bands) may resemble ties or fabric styles of a particular time(if original). Most don't have liners. Most hat bodies were not produced by the main hat companies themselves.

early-mid 19th cent.

1920

1942

1949

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

RLK is 100% right about straws. There were tons of them in use in the early 1800s. I'd guess they'd be almost impossible to date without individual provenance. Yikes. I can't even imagine try to figure out where a straw came from.

 

[The Elizans]

Dating hats

Two bits of advice:

1) Hats that come boxed often have postage marks dating when they were shipped from the shop to customer; providing the make/model match on the box and hat, one can 'assume' this to be reliable.

2)Research on census, companies house (UK), local councils etc. to see when hat companies ceased trading or moved premises. Some companies underwent mergers and takeovers or name changes due to family members/partners dying e.g: G. A. Dunn & Co becoming Dunn & Co. Some English hats had royal appointments. these were printed on the liners therefore they can be accurately dated to the reign of that monarch.

Good luck, happy hunting!

T. E.

 

[robertray]

Help dating a couple hats

Let me first say thank you to this forum and its members for the plethra of info on here. I`m new to fedoras, and I got bit by the bug recently when my girlfriend bought one for me (from belks) to wear on stage. Now I have a wall full of them - most of which are vintage. I just aquired two more that I`d like some info on and help dating. The first is a Champ. Looks to be pretty old. Its brim is 2 3/8 and has a large triple stiched overwelt. I`m acually not too thrilled about the stiching. I think it cheapens the look of the hat a bit. Heres a few pics...

 

[robertray]

Second is a Borsalino Torino. Afeter some research here, I dont believe it to be too old. Any help narrowing down the date would be appreciated....

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[dhermann1]

Can't help you much with the dates. But I must say, I like the stitching on the Champ. I don't think it makes it look cheap. Maybe a little more casual, but not cheap.

 

[jlee562]

Yeah, i don't associate the stitching with "cheapness" at all.

Champ is no older than late 50s/early 60's based on the plastic in the liner...beyond that, can't say. Impossible to date the Borso without seeing more of the hat. Look for any stickers underneath the sweatband/liner. That tells us more than just the liner. There are a ton of different liners used in Borsos.

 

[GoldenEraFan]

The Champ looks to be late '40s early '50s with that very wide brim. That triple stitching presents the high quality craftsmanship of the era. The Borsalino looks '60s or later.

 

[robertray]

Wow, thanks fellas for the quick replies. I checked under the sweat of the Borso, and found nothing. I do believe the liner is glued in though. It also has a cloth (white with blue numbering) size tag and black leather sweat. I`m glad to find out the triple stiching of the Champ represents the high quality of the era. Its the only hat I own that has that kind of stiching, so I was a bit taken back by it. Thanks again fellas...

 

[GoldenEraFan]

Wow, thanks fellas for the quick replies. I checked under the sweat of the Borso, and found nothing. I do believe the liner is glued in though. It also has a cloth (white with blue numbering) size tag and black leather sweat. I`m glad to find out the triple stiching of the Champ represents the high quality of the era. Its the only hat I own that has that kind of stiching, so I was a bit taken back by it. Thanks again fellas...

I highly recommend reading this thread http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?61698-Vintage-Fedoras-by-Decade . It breaks down fedora specs by decade which will become pretty useful when buying vintage hats in the future.

 

[hatophile]

The Champ is vintage and very cool in my opinion.
I agree the Borsa is newer but nice looking hat.
You have some interesting looking musical equipment too. Blues, Rock?

 

[rlk]

The reprise of the Borsalino fu Lazzaro mark with that Logo was in the early 70's and onward a bit, while the Champ with slightly lowered crown and narrower brim(2-3/8") compared to the Post-War 40's and early 50's plus the thicker clear plastic tip covering is mid-late 50's roughly.

I do have a near twin to that G.B. Bors f. L. with its tag which has the rounded corners and shape that matches the tags which show the date starting mid 70's.

Very little of the dating by decade thread can be applied to Borsalino and is most applicable to Stetson.

 

[CaramelSmoothie]

If you need help dating a couple of hats, I suggest putting an ad on Craigslist or Match.com and if you're lucky you'll get some replies from some old hats and can set up some dates, lol

I know, corny joke!

 

[splintercellsz]

Nice one, Caramel

Robertray, those are two nice hats!

 

[robertray]

You have some interesting looking musical equipment too. Blues, Rock?

Thanks. I play a bit of it all actually. I`m one of those "go to" guys so to speak, if your band is in a pinch and you need a solid player for an up-coming show or studio work. Right now I`m filling in for this young punk/hard rock band. Meh... it keeps me busy and gigging. I get to sport my cool hats more often!

 

[robertray]

If you need help dating a couple of hats, I suggest putting an ad on Craigslist or Match.com and if you're lucky you'll get some replies from some old hats and can set up some dates, lol

I know, corny joke!

I tried that. The ones whom replied were all too old and crumpled. I guess my Kahl stiffener and a nice bottle of merlot might have helped...

 

[unja]

Hello all,
I'm new here. I'm a vintage store owner and have a good knowledge of vintage but struggle with men's fedoras. I've read all about Knox Fifth ave Hats and history, but am still unsure on the date of this hat. I believe it's a Homborg ? At first, I thought it a newer one, but then questioned that. It has a 2" brim, embossed logo on sweatband, the sweatband is leather, the size tag is paper ( why I thought maybe newer, but then saw older hats with paper size tags) is in good condition except for some staining on the hat lining. It came from a local woman who passed recently, was in her 70s and did theatre. Any help dating and pricing would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!