Bobby Peru
One of the Regulars
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- 135
S&S is always in my agenda when I visit the Oakland area. Fun people, and will special order Real McCoy's jackets they normally don't stock.
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New Standard & Strange X Simmons Bilt Natural Horsehide Jacket
- Thread starter El Marro
- Start date
Don't have any end game list whatsoever but a natural veg tan should be on everybody's list
The end game is probably a dragon skin jacket made under the watchful stare of a unicorn... the day you manage to get such a jacket, you can call it a day.
Oh wait... it depends on which unicorn and dragon
The end game is probably a dragon skin jacket made under the watchful stare of a unicorn... the day you manage to get such a jacket, you can call it a day.
Oh wait... it depends on which unicorn and dragon
Yeah, and is that Horween or Shinki tanned dragon? And in which colour? Also I would like to know if the Unicorn does full bespoke?
sweetfights
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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- 3,398
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- Canada
you guys crack me up!! LOL
What's wrong with SB? Looks like some really nice leather jackets they built for S&S.
The issue some people have with SB is the questionable ethics behind how they obtained their jacket patterns from Aero. There's a lot of information about this on the Lounge already.
The thing about artisan made jackets is that some customers prefer the company they deal with to be as mindful about their code of conduct as they are about the venerable techniques used in jacket making.
Ok, so it's not because they make ****py jackets. So it's an ethical deal. Which I don't understand. I see so many designs that look exactly the same by different makers. Himel has a Frobisher that looks similar to the Eastman Californian that looks similar to the Aero 30's halfbelt which looks similar to the Bill Kelso Wingman....lol. I mean what are these guys/companies stealing from one another?
dudewuttheheck
I'll Lock Up
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- 4,543
Lol no you're WAY off base here. SB literally has stolen patterns from Aero. They aren't similar, they are the exact patterns that were stolen from Aero years back. Not the same thing at all.
Those jackets you mentioned are all similar, but are not exactly the same. They aren't copying each other, they are just all making 1930's era sports jackets. SB has exact Aero patterns that were stolen from Aero.
This is why SB will never get any kind words from me.
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Yes. And you need to remember that the Calders, who own Aero are kind of family to a lot of people here. Ken has been very good to this community and to members personally so the history of SB and its founder is personal and painful to a lot of folk here.
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Boyo
Call Me a Cab
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- Long Island NY
I think we are arguing two separate points.. Yes the design of this S&S collaboration is similar to many other jackets available, this is no issue for me at all.. The well documented theft by former Aero employees of patterns etc when Alexander Leathers was formed is another issue entirely, how many of those People are still involved now that AL has become Simmons Bilt? How much this will or should impact your buying decision is personal.
If I were buying my very first leather jacket today I probably wouldn't care about the past issues if I thought I was getting good value for my money and a great jacket. I have a lot of respect for the people at Aero and it appears they always go out of their way to make their customers happy, I have always been satisfied with their products, so for me personally I would have to think long and hard about a Simmons Bilt jacket.
If I were buying my very first leather jacket today I probably wouldn't care about the past issues if I thought I was getting good value for my money and a great jacket. I have a lot of respect for the people at Aero and it appears they always go out of their way to make their customers happy, I have always been satisfied with their products, so for me personally I would have to think long and hard about a Simmons Bilt jacket.
Mich486
One Too Many
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- 1,689
And there you go another SB thread went to ****.
It is official, it is impossible to discuss SB or BK jackets on this forum without not talking about the jackets but instead focusing all the attention on what the makers did or said in the past.
Honestly for me this is getting repetitive and quite frankly a bit ridiculous, almost witch hunt ridiculous.
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It is official, it is impossible to discuss SB or BK jackets on this forum without not talking about the jackets but instead focusing all the attention on what the makers did or said in the past.
Honestly for me this is getting repetitive and quite frankly a bit ridiculous, almost witch hunt ridiculous.
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Boyo
Call Me a Cab
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- Long Island NY
@Mich486, the facts are the facts, the genesis of SB as a jacket manufacturer are based on Alexander Leather and a former Aero employee. Some people have an issue with it.
I guess that's where I'm at. I am not nearly as involved and passionate with the manufacturers of some of these places, nor the ownership of these companies, like most of you guys it seems.
While I can definitely identify with stealing idea's or artwork etc... in a lot of other communities I'm involved with, it comes down to the age old argument of who's intellectual property is it? A rabbit hole I've been down with other communities and will not go down here. I digress. And sorry for bringing it up. I mean that.
Regardless of peoples feelings about the past, these are really nice jackets. A bit overpriced in my opinion. But full disclosure, I find that most of the stuff I see from Freewheelers to Schott are overpriced,lol. But that's just me.
Thanks for the info fellas!
Superfluous
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I intentionally avoided discussing SB’s history in this thread – not because my opinion of SB has diminished over time, but rather, because I sought to avoid the backlash by certain members who favor SB and prefer to move beyond the company’s origins. I bit my tongue when others brought up SB’s alleged use of patterns stolen from Aero and the associated immorality.
Now, this thread is evolving in a new direction that warrants separate comment. Apparently, some here believe that the topic of SB’s use of patterns allegedly stolen from Aero by a founder of SB – the essential basis upon which SB was founded – is off limits and can no longer be discussed on TFL. I respectfully disagree. While I personally no longer feel the need to reference SB’s origins, others here are free to do so and should not be indirectly disparaged for such posts. If the accounts are accurate, SB’s founding conduct was profoundly despicable. SB didn’t just make jackets that look similar to other existing jackets. Rather, according to the evidence I have read about here, one of SB’s founders – while working for Aero – allegedly stole patterns from Aero and SB used those stolen patterns to launch the company. That is abhorrent.
Given the egregious nature of SB’s alleged founding conduct, it should be no surprise that some people harbor significant animosity for SB – I certainly do. TFL members have every right to share their strong feelings about SB’s contemptible conduct. Please recall that the foregoing occurred only a few years ago. This is not ancient history. Moreover, new members of TFL should know about SB’s alleged reprehensible founding conduct so that they can make informed decisions about whether to patronize the company.
Some have decided to let bygones be bygones. My hat is off to you for your praiseworthy forgiveness, and I will not criticize you for patronizing SB. However, just as you are entitled to forgive and forget without condemnation, others are entitled to remember, criticize and boycott without disparagement.
I think the focal issue is that the criticism is shared in threads that address new SB products. I get it. On the other hand, where else can someone share his/her righteous indignation with SB? Where else can the newbie be educated about the origins of the company? One cannot insist that SB's origins be off-limits in a thread about a new SB product. That is not realistic. SB is, and will continue to be, a product of its origins. I suspect that, over time, SB's origins will receive less attention. That said, for now, the relatively recent history understandably remains at the forefront of many people's minds.
Some here have suggested that perhaps SB is no longer managed by those who participated in the alleged original dishonesty. Of course, no one has proffered any evidence supporting this speculation. Moreover, my quick search reveals that the same people are still at the helm, including most importantly Thomas Alexander who founded the company: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC432268/persons-with-significant-control ; https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC432268/officers . The only founder to leave the company appears to be Will Lauder and he, of course, is in prison for his criminal conduct.
The biggest change at SB since its founding is the change of the company’s name. In a transparent effort to distance itself from the alleged despicable conduct upon which it was founded, Alexander Leathers changed its name to Simmons Bilt. However, Thomas Alexander – the namesake of Alexander Leathers – still owns and operates Simmons Bilt. “A rose by any other name . . .” – or, in this case, a Venus flytrap.
Ps: I have no personal knowledge of SB's alleged use of patterns taken from Aero, I am not stating that that in fact occurred, I do not know if that occurred, and my opinions are based on what others have posted on this forum about that conduct.
Now, this thread is evolving in a new direction that warrants separate comment. Apparently, some here believe that the topic of SB’s use of patterns allegedly stolen from Aero by a founder of SB – the essential basis upon which SB was founded – is off limits and can no longer be discussed on TFL. I respectfully disagree. While I personally no longer feel the need to reference SB’s origins, others here are free to do so and should not be indirectly disparaged for such posts. If the accounts are accurate, SB’s founding conduct was profoundly despicable. SB didn’t just make jackets that look similar to other existing jackets. Rather, according to the evidence I have read about here, one of SB’s founders – while working for Aero – allegedly stole patterns from Aero and SB used those stolen patterns to launch the company. That is abhorrent.
Given the egregious nature of SB’s alleged founding conduct, it should be no surprise that some people harbor significant animosity for SB – I certainly do. TFL members have every right to share their strong feelings about SB’s contemptible conduct. Please recall that the foregoing occurred only a few years ago. This is not ancient history. Moreover, new members of TFL should know about SB’s alleged reprehensible founding conduct so that they can make informed decisions about whether to patronize the company.
Some have decided to let bygones be bygones. My hat is off to you for your praiseworthy forgiveness, and I will not criticize you for patronizing SB. However, just as you are entitled to forgive and forget without condemnation, others are entitled to remember, criticize and boycott without disparagement.
I think the focal issue is that the criticism is shared in threads that address new SB products. I get it. On the other hand, where else can someone share his/her righteous indignation with SB? Where else can the newbie be educated about the origins of the company? One cannot insist that SB's origins be off-limits in a thread about a new SB product. That is not realistic. SB is, and will continue to be, a product of its origins. I suspect that, over time, SB's origins will receive less attention. That said, for now, the relatively recent history understandably remains at the forefront of many people's minds.
Some here have suggested that perhaps SB is no longer managed by those who participated in the alleged original dishonesty. Of course, no one has proffered any evidence supporting this speculation. Moreover, my quick search reveals that the same people are still at the helm, including most importantly Thomas Alexander who founded the company: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC432268/persons-with-significant-control ; https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC432268/officers . The only founder to leave the company appears to be Will Lauder and he, of course, is in prison for his criminal conduct.
The biggest change at SB since its founding is the change of the company’s name. In a transparent effort to distance itself from the alleged despicable conduct upon which it was founded, Alexander Leathers changed its name to Simmons Bilt. However, Thomas Alexander – the namesake of Alexander Leathers – still owns and operates Simmons Bilt. “A rose by any other name . . .” – or, in this case, a Venus flytrap.
Ps: I have no personal knowledge of SB's alleged use of patterns taken from Aero, I am not stating that that in fact occurred, I do not know if that occurred, and my opinions are based on what others have posted on this forum about that conduct.
technovox
One Too Many
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True. Except on my last Sheene, I asked Aero to add a waist band and buckles. My intention was to get the tight fit of a Sheene, and the look of a Highwayman. Except for the blackened Vicenza color, it's very similar looking to the S&S Vanishing jacket.
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I think your jacket provided the inspiration for the much maligned SB/S&S colab!
Interesting that Aero will make this adjustment but won't move those buckles up and include a Halfbelt on a standard CR...something I've asked for in the past and think would look cool.
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