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drmaxtejeda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,329
Location
Mexico City
There was a Dominican Friar named Bartolomé de las Casas who in the 16th century condemned the atrocities committed by the colonizers against the indigenous peoples of The Americas while it was happening. Some judge him favorably today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartolomé_de_las_Casas


Peace,
@deadlyhandsome and @jonesy86:

Both Junípero Serra and Bartolomé de las casas have streets and schools named after them in Mexico today.

I once asked a Spaniard at my golf club what Spanish kids were taught about the conquest of the Americas.
He said that they were told that Spain came to "Spread the Gospel".
In reality, that was just another tool they used to murder, enslave, rob, rape, exploit, and subjugate native peoples for three hundred years.

I told him so, too. Sucking our blood for three centuries was a heavy price to pay for their "envagelization", I said.

Some time later a Spanish woman I knew asked where I thought my last name came from. Hmmmm. She said it was my own ancestors who did that. Hers had remained in Spain. Hmmm, hmmm, hmmm.
I hate people who answer emotional accusations rationally. [emoji2]

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Messages
18,915
Location
Central California
@deadlyhandsome and @jonesy86:

Both Junípero Serra and Bartolomé de las casas have streets and schools named after them in Mexico today.

I once asked a Spaniard at my golf club what Spanish kids were taught about the conquest of the Americas.
He said that they were told that Spain came to "Spread the Gospel".
In reality, that was just another tool they used to murder, enslave, rob, rape, exploit, and subjugate native peoples for three hundred years.

I told him so, too. Sucking our blood for three centuries was a heavy price to pay for their "envagelization", I said.

Some time later a Spanish woman I knew asked where I thought my last name came from. Hmmmm. She said it was my own ancestors who did that. Hers had remained in Spain. Hmmm, hmmm, hmmm.
I hate people who answer emotional accusations rationally. [emoji2]

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk


It happens to me every time I start to get self righteous; someone bursts my bubble with some inconvenient facts.

If we go back far enough, all cultures have blood on their hands. What we think of as indigenous peoples were themselves often conquerers who killed, raped, and committed genocide. My people are from the British isles which was repeatedly conquered and repeatedly did some conquering. This has been going on since before recorded history. If it happened 2,000 years ago we seem better able to dispassionately study cultures and peoples without making judgments. As we deal with more modern history, but still many generations removed, we often loose perspective; we judge their actions by our own standards and sensibilities and that isn’t just.

Slavery is wrong. That’s to me a moral imperative. However, most all peoples practiced it in the past and some continue today. It was seen as normal and accepted. I don’t condemn ancient cultures for not having the same understandings as modern people. Those in the transition periods don’t get the same understanding, but I think they should.

I have no doubt that the various nation states cynically used religion to achieve their base and greedy desires. I also believe that many of the missionaries and churchmen were motivated by the desire to save souls. Serra will continue to be a divisive person, and there’s no doubt that he could be brutal and even cruel. I just believe that we need to study history in context and make fewer judgements and avoid the temptation to either whitewash or to vilify.

I’m sticking to hats. Fur felt is much nicer to ponder.


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Last edited:

drmaxtejeda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,329
Location
Mexico City
It happens to me every time I start to get self righteous; someone bursts my bubble with some inconvenient facts.

If we go back far enough, all cultures have blood on their hands. What we think of as indigenous peoples were themselves often conquerers who killed, raped, and committed genocide. My people are from the British isles which repeatedly conquered and repeatedly did some conquering. This has been going on since before recorded history. If it happened 2,000 years ago we seem better able to dispassionately study cultures and peoples without making judgments. As we deal with more modern history, but still many generations removed, we often loose perspective; we judge their actions by our own standards and sensibilities and that isn’t just.

Slavery is wrong. That’s to me a moral imperative. However, most all peoples practiced it in the past and some continue today. It was seen as normal and accepted. I don’t condemn ancient cultures for not having the same understandings as modern people. Those in the transition periods don’t get the same understanding, but I think they should.

I have no doubt that the various nation states cynically used religion to achieve their base and greedy desires. I also believe that many of the missionaries and churchmen were motivated by the desire to save souls. Serra will continue to be a divisive person, and there’s no doubt that he could be brutal and even cruel. I just believe that we need to study history in context and make fewer judgements and avoid the temptation to either whitewash or to vilify.

I’m sticking to hats. Fur felt is much nicer to ponder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Sí. And even that generates some arguments.

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manicsubmersion

New in Town
Messages
17
upload_2019-5-26_13-8-44.jpeg


On top of Chimney Rock Mesa at Ghost Ranch, New Mexico
 

jonesy86

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,610
Location
Kauai
Sí. And even that generates some arguments.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

The last time I was in Chiapas I saw some folks still wearing these hats:

ab23f24944887471dc41e3a36ccb383a.jpg


In the city named after him I spoke with some folks who believed that the teachings of Las Casas could be relevant today.


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Last edited:

Fourman110

One of the Regulars
Messages
264
It happens to me every time I start to get self righteous; someone bursts my bubble with some inconvenient facts.

If we go back far enough, all cultures have blood on their hands. What we think of as indigenous peoples were themselves often conquerers who killed, raped, and committed genocide. My people are from the British isles which repeatedly conquered and repeatedly did some conquering. This has been going on since before recorded history. If it happened 2,000 years ago we seem better able to dispassionately study cultures and peoples without making judgments. As we deal with more modern history, but still many generations removed, we often loose perspective; we judge their actions by our own standards and sensibilities and that isn’t just.

Slavery is wrong. That’s to me a moral imperative. However, most all peoples practiced it in the past and some continue today. It was seen as normal and accepted. I don’t condemn ancient cultures for not having the same understandings as modern people. Those in the transition periods don’t get the same understanding, but I think they should.

I have no doubt that the various nation states cynically used religion to achieve their base and greedy desires. I also believe that many of the missionaries and churchmen were motivated by the desire to save souls. Serra will continue to be a divisive person, and there’s no doubt that he could be brutal and even cruel. I just believe that we need to study history in context and make fewer judgements and avoid the temptation to either whitewash or to vilify.

I’m sticking to hats. Fur felt is much nicer to ponder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I wish there was an option to have multiple likes.....
 
Messages
11,131
Location
Alabama
you know us millennials

And here I thought you were just another of us old men hanging around here.

Jared, in another life I lived in a small town in TN where a friend of mine and his family were florists and had the only business in town. The business bought a plane and sent my bud to flight school so that he could pick up flowers in Nashville and other not too far away locations as they came in from the tropics and hothouses elsewhere. I made several late night flights with him and he taught me enough about the flower business to know I didn't want to be involved. Flying into Nashville and seeing the lights of town late at night in a single engine, 4 seater after sampling a pint bottle of G D white label on the flight was a great way to travel.
 

jlee562

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,047
Location
San Francisco, CA
And here I thought you were just another of us old men hanging around here.

Jared, in another life I lived in a small town in TN where a friend of mine and his family were florists and had the only business in town. The business bought a plane and sent my bud to flight school so that he could pick up flowers in Nashville and other not too far away locations as they came in from the tropics and hothouses elsewhere. I made several late night flights with him and he taught me enough about the flower business to know I didn't want to be involved. Flying into Nashville and seeing the lights of town late at night in a single engine, 4 seater after sampling a pint bottle of G D white label on the flight was a great way to travel.

It's a very interesting business, that's for sure! Luckily, we grow a lot here in California (although increasingly less after the legalization of a certain other plant). I've taken over the family business that my (paternal) grandfather established in 1946. There's a lot of work to be done and often times I'm the one whose picked up the flowers from the wholesaler, made the arrangement, and deliver it from beginning to end. But I do get the rewarding satisfaction of making something new almost every day...there's of course a lot of "paint by number" arranging going on, but that pays the bills.

My friend Joanna who runs the farm I was grabbing that stuff from has an even more hectic schedule, bouncing from the rooftop farm to two other plots of land that she grows on. Neither of us are likely to make millionaire status, but there are worse ways to make a living than spending all day around flowers!
 

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