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California Sportswear Co. (CSC) aka Californian (1930s-1950s) thread
- Thread starter jchance
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1940s CSC for Penney’s, “made and styled in California” with signature horse (and next, steer) label:
1950s steer
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jeo
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Oakbrook is early 60’s, not early 50’s.
There was a whole thread on this rare bird, 1952:
Rare 1952? Oakbrook D-Pocket Jacket on eBay. Heavy Duty Leather. Only one I've seen.
Survivor.....Early 1950's Sears Oakbrook D-Pocket Jacket on eBay. Nice. Original wool collar and heavy leather belt. 44 (42) Not the later mass-produced 50's-60's designer jacket that had cloth lined D-Pocket and snap pocket. Both D and snap pockets are leather lined, like old school...
jeo
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There was a whole thread on this rare species, 1952:
Rare 1952? Oakbrook D-Pocket Jacket on eBay. Heavy Duty Leather. Only one I've seen.
Survivor.....Early 1950's Sears Oakbrook D-Pocket Jacket on eBay. Nice. Original wool collar and heavy leather belt. 44 (42) Not the later mass-produced 50's-60's designer jacket that had cloth lined D-Pocket and snap pocket. Both D and snap pockets are leather lined, like old school...www.thefedoralounge.com
I’m aware of this thread. What’s your point? Just because the guy called it early 50’s doesn’t make it so.
Oakbrook didn’t appear in the Sears catalogs until 1962. Please do your research before posting.
I’m with you actually. Steer label was popular mid-1950s to mid-1960s, while horse was before that and cow was after that. When I saw the steer label, I had my doubts and suspicion. He said 1952 and you said 1962, your position is more in line with that steer label’s time period. The Sears catalog supports that, too.
I’m just the messenger — don’t shoot the messenger, man. I reported my findings, upon which I staked no claim. I’m happy to be wrong and corrected. I’ll just leave certain positions on who the makers are as disputed claims, not affirmative claims. No one can ever be sure, unless the progenies of the makers came out and share that historical info, we are all just making educated guesses at this point—70+ years later.
jeo
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No, you tried to argue, citing that thread.
You’re spitting out these threads at a million miles a minute with many inaccuracies so I am correcting you.
I cited a source of where I got that claim from, I did not “try to argue.” I’m actually a lawyer by training, and am experienced at that. When I make an argument, you’d know. It would be a wall of text supported by reasons, not just a single source—that’s not an argument. For example, here’s an argument I made recently:
Guide to Vintage Leather Jackets
I’vd been trying to avoid vintage/worn in jackets … just because I'm not educated enough to understand their value, it deeply confuses me why some are worth £90 and some £900. The above comment is commonly echoed among new forum members. Let’s crowdsource a guide on vintage leather jackets...
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ABCD
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You're like a human version of AI lol; copying what other people said, presenting it as knowledge without verifying the correctness of 'your' information.
See the above two quotes. Terry also asked me two pages back whether I’m a robot.
Aren’t we all the “human version of AI”? Just because I am able to suspend my judgment doesn’t mean I’m incapable of critical thinking. A week back, I didn’t know enough about CSC to stake a claim one way or another. But I could present the available info in one place and people can disagree on certain positions, upon which I’d learn more and something new about it. But if all another person tells me is “this was made by Albert Richard” or “this was made by Block” without telling me their reasoning of why they thought so, I’d learn nothing new except taking their conclusion (a new position) at face value. What was F. Scott Fitzgerald’s intellectual challenge? I am able to hold two opposing conclusions in my mind at once and still function.
So why didn’t I verify the correctness of the info? Not just because I don’t know enough to do so, it’s also because it’s a crowdsourcing effort—a forum for discussion with multiple participants, not my dissertation or research paper. I don’t have to take on that task of verifying, someone else would eventually come out and do it for me. Tell me when I’m wrong, I welcome it. I’m not wedded to any statements I have made on a forum, I am allowed to (and am intellectually humble enough to) change my position upon learning newly available info. Actually, most of the statements I have made on leather jackets on TFL were prob just parroting other people’s conclusions; I have no way of verifying one way or another. I could learn why they thought so and adopt their thinking, but I couldn’t verify them like facts like the sun rises in the east.
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jeo
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I cited a source of where I got that claim from, I did not “try to argue.” I’m actually a lawyer by training, and am experienced at that. When I make an argument, you’d know. It would be a wall of text supported by reasoning, not just a single source—that’s not an argument. For example, here’s an argument I made recently:
Guide to Vintage Leather Jackets
I’vd been trying to avoid vintage/worn in jackets … just because I'm not educated enough to understand their value, it deeply confuses me why some are worth £90 and some £900. The above comment is commonly echoed among new forum members. Let’s crowdsource a guide on vintage leather jackets...www.thefedoralounge.com
Ok mister lawyer, your exact words to me were:
“There was a whole thread on this rare bird, 1952:”
You cited that thread a response, implying that you don’t agree instead of acknowledging the mistake.
Now this is becoming an argument. You thought there was an implied disagreement but there wasn’t. I cited a source of where I got the idea from, you even asked me immediately after “what is your point?” If I made an argument, you should have known what my point was. You didn’t know my point because no argument was made. Next, I responded to you that I actually agree with you, giving 2 reasons (steer label mid-1950s to mid-1960s and catalog). An argument needs to come with supporting reasoning and facts. Otherwise, it’s just a conclusion.
Can you now see how the above paragraph is actually an argument and what I said earlier is not? Assuming an implied message in one’s head is not a “mistake” that I’d admit. I’m not shy to “acknowledge a mistake” when an actual mistake was made. Misreading someone’s implied message is a misinterpretation on your part, it’s not my mistake to acknowledge.
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ABCD
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No. My findings are based on first hand experience.
Not on statistical analysis of data that may or may not be correct.
