Military Fakes- sometimes you just have to share the joke...

V.C. Brunswick · Jun 28, 2011

bluestone120 said:
This is probably the most common motivation I've heard for uniform fakeries.

I've also heard that WWII paratroopers didn't spare a beating for any non-parachuting military personnel they caught wearing jump-boots.

For the Normandy invasion some non-airborne units such as Rangers, Naval Combat Demolition Units (NCDU), and the Special Engineer Brigades tasked with clearing the beach obstacles were also issued jump boots because they were considered more ideal for working in the surf.

RadioWave · Jun 28, 2011

...You learn something new every day.

Edward · Jun 28, 2011

bluestone120 said:
I've also heard that WWII paratroopers didn't spare a beating for any non-parachuting military personnel they caught wearing jump-boots.

That I find quite disturbing - essentially, it's no different than the guy I knew years ago who got a hiding from some National Front types for wearing "their" insignia.

Guttersnipe · Jun 28, 2011

bluestone120 said:
I've also heard that WWII paratroopers didn't spare a beating for any non-parachuting military personnel they caught wearing jump-boots.

I read Bill Mauldin's Up Front, he talks explicitly about the beating guys up for wearing jump boot phenomenon. He says the experienced combat troops were far above such things and mainly it was "guys too far forward to wear ties, but too far behind the lines to get shot" who engaged in such foolishness. Jump boots were FAR superior than the standard "roughouts" when it came to holding up to mud so, in Italy, any dog face who who could get his hands on a pair wore them -- including Mauldin -- who was a correspondent.

Bluebird Marsha · Jun 28, 2011

Well, the jump boots, like certain color berets and insignia, are/were part of the uniform of "elite" units. It doesn't quite rise to wearing a medal you haven't earned. But it comes close. I don't know if the same status is still attached to those boots. I suspect folks in combat wear what wears best.

Unlike the National Front, those units are admired by most of the population. It's not wearing a piece of the uniform, but wearing it in a way that implies that you are a member of those units that can cause a ruckus in the bar parking lot.

But yeah, usually to impress women

I could tell you a story about my sister's current boyfriend, who tried to claim he'd been a SEAL. But that tale would cast unfair aspersions on my family gene pool.

RadioWave · Jun 28, 2011

Guttersnipe said:
He says the experienced combat troops were far above such things and mainly it was "guys too far forward to wear ties, but too far behind the lines to get shot" who engaged in such foolishness.

Every crowd has a number of "those guys". I'm glad you were able to embellish on the phenomenon better than I was - you too, V.C. I'm fairly certain I had first read about this some time ago in a book written about the 101st. While I'm familiar with Mauldin's work, I haven't had the privilege of reading Up Front yet.

Bluebird Marsha said:
Well, the jump boots, like certain color berets and insignia, are/were part of the uniform of "elite" units. It doesn't quite rise to wearing a medal you haven't earned. But it comes close.

All the same, there are those who'll voice their concerns civilly, and others who'll let you know with their fists...

1961MJS · Jun 28, 2011

Hi

It doesn't matter which service if you wear the wrong thing. My lab partner was in the Marine Reserves, and another guy in class was in Marine ROTC. Both were wearing Marine Corps patches (generic USMC with the globe and anchor) on their jackets. The ROTC guy said, I don't recognize you from ROTC. Steve replied, "That's because I'm a real Marine."

Later

JimWagner · Jun 28, 2011

Around here the best place to spot those phony chicken hawks is at busy street intersections with their hands out, claiming to be laid off homeless combat veteran ex-POWs suffering from PTSD. It never ceases to amaze me how many people I see fork over their money to these phony professional beggars.

DocMustang · Jun 28, 2011

Here is a somewhat backwards version of this same phenomenon:

I was a young High School student and the military had one of those "career" day events. I knew I wanted to join up after graduation. Being from an army family, I approached their table first. The Staff Sergeant at the table was busy regaling the wide eyed kids about his days as a Ranger, how awesome it felt to graduate from Ranger school, how great it was to be a Ranger, what kind of gear Ranger's carry and the respect Rangers get from the rest of the army etc.

At the time I was very interested in electronics and I asked the Sergeant politely "Excuse me Staff Sergeant, do you have any information about anything in the electronics field."

"Here kid, read this." He said tersely and went back to his tales of valor. I looked down DRAGON missile technician the brochure said. I was a little upset by his manner and angered by his dismissal of me. As I said, I come from an army family. I have been able to read a uniform since I was eight years old. After taking one look at the recruiter's uniform I asked him two questions:

"Excuse me Staff Sergeant, are YOU a Ranger?" I said in my best groupie imitation.

"Yes I am" was his proud reply.

"Where is your tab?" I asked knowing that those who really ARE rangers revere the ranger tab (and scroll) so much they often have it tattooed on. No ranger would wear a uniform without it unless a mission required it.(Recruiting is not such a mission) Its absence on the Staff Sergeant's uniform was a glaring omission.

He stammered a bit taken aback that this snot nosed High Schooler had managed to take him down a few pegs. In front of his potential recruits. His spell was broken the crowd of kids surrounding him began to break up.

The Navy recruiter at the table next to him was laughing, "Whats your name? Let me tell you about the Navy's Nuclear power program!"

I put on my first Navy uniform 6 months later.

Treetopflyer · Jun 28, 2011

I was introduced to a guy in college that claimed to have been a Naval Aviator that was shot down and a POW in Vietnam. He even spoke at several military functions about his so called experience. He had his office decorated with a shadow box with all the appropriate medals and ribbons. He even had a Naval Officer sword with his name and date of commissioning engraved on it. A local news station was doing a story about Vietnam Vets and interviewed him. A group of Vets that find fakers decided to interview him after seeing the broadcast. He was not able to answer any of the questions they asked him correctly. Such as where he went to flight school, specifics about the aircraft he claimed he flew, etc., etc. Turns out the guy had been enlisted in the Navy for a year and fell of an aircraft that he was training to be a maintainer on. He was medically discharged and never made it past the pay grade of E-3. His wife even played along with his lies.

Bluebird Marsha · Jun 29, 2011

The guys begging on the street corner, even the guys telling tall tales at the bar to impress the women and up the odds of getting lucky- them I understand. The risk is low, and the payoff is relatively high for the energy expended. But the "professional" phony makes no sense. They always elevate their accomplishments to the point that it becomes easy to detect. Faking the skill set of a military pilot- and a Vietnam POW no less? How can you possibly expect to continue that charade? The unmasking is going to be very public, and very humiliating. How could it possibly be worth it?

Guttersnipe · Jun 29, 2011

One thing I've noticed is that combat veterans -- particularly ones who've see lots of action -- tend to speak very little about it.

My grandfather flew fighter combat and ground attack missions as part of the 9th AF in WWII and also saw jet-on-jet combat in Korea. He only really spoke about training and friends he knew. The way he spoke about his experiences in Europe you'd think he was driving a bus . . . I looked up the casualty rate for his unit . . . it was something like 15%!!!!

The same goes for friend of my father. He was a Marine NCO in Vietnam. We knew him for years before we discovered he was awarded a silver star for actions during the Tet Offensive. The only reason we know is because his sister told us.

Treetopflyer · Jun 29, 2011

Guttersnipe said:
One thing I've noticed is that combat veterans -- particularly ones who've see lots of action -- tend to speak very little about it.

Concur, I had a friend who's Mom dated a guy for years that served in Vietnam as Navy UDT, which then became the SEALs. He never spoke of it. He would only say that he was a Gunners Mate.

1961MJS · Jun 29, 2011

Hi

I agree, few combat veterans discuss combat. It's not something that they usually want to remember. A friend of mine's father (WW2 vet) has even more to forget. He was with a graves registration unit and went ashore in Normandy in about July 1944. He HAD pictures of his friends, but they were all in front of someone else's bodies so he burned the pictures years ago.

Later

J. M. Stovall · Jun 29, 2011

Along the lines of Jump Boots, being in armor we had our Tanker Boots. I never saw a beat-down, but I don't think anyone would even dare wear them that wasn't wearing Armor or Calvary insignia. The only exception I saw was when I went to flight school after Armor school we kept wearing them and nobody said a thing. They made good flight boots anyway.

JimWagner · Jun 29, 2011

Don't think I ever saw anyone when I was in the Navy wear a G-1 jacket or other flight gear who wasn't or hadn't been a pilot or flight crew member. Probably because you couldn't just go buy that stuff at the base exchange in those days.

V.C. Brunswick · Jun 29, 2011

Bluebird Marsha said:
The guys begging on the street corner, even the guys telling tall tales at the bar to impress the women and up the odds of getting lucky- them I understand. The risk is low, and the payoff is relatively high for the energy expended. But the "professional" phony makes no sense. They always elevate their accomplishments to the point that it becomes easy to detect. Faking the skill set of a military pilot- and a Vietnam POW no less? How can you possibly expect to continue that charade? The unmasking is going to be very public, and very humiliating. How could it possibly be worth it?

All I know is that there are people out there who crave attention so badly that, in their mind, even negative attention is better than no attention at all.

Atticus Finch · Jun 29, 2011

Guttersnipe said:
One thing I've noticed is that combat veterans -- particularly ones who've see lots of action -- tend to speak very little about it.

My Uncle Jule was an Army medic. He landed at Normandy and saw much action until he was badly wounded in The Battle of the Bulge. He would only talk about the funny stuff that happened to him during the war. He told me of hunting rabbits in England using a Tommy gun. He told me of burning someone's beautiful grand piano in an abandoned house in Belgium...because he was cold. He told me of freezing a 55 gallon drum of ice cream by loading it into the waist gunner's station of a B-17 and having the pilot fly around at 30,000 feet for an hour or so.

One day, when I was ten or so, we were sitting on his front porch and I asked him if he had ever killed a person in the war. He was quiet for a long moment before he told that he didn't know. I thought that was a dumb answer. I was a kid, I didn't know better. I asked how a person could not know if he had killed another soldier or not. I'll never forget the expression on Uncle Jule's face. He turned to me and said that he had often pointed his weapon at other people and pulled the trigger, but that he had “never gone to them and asked them if they were dead." Even at ten years old, I had the sense not to press the issue further. It wasn't until years later that I realized this was the way Uncle Jule dealt with having killed other human beings during the war. He was able to tell himself that he had only wounded or maybe even missed the people he had shot at. Maybe he hadn't really killed anybody, at all.

AF

Gene · Jun 29, 2011

Atticus Finch said:
One day, when I was ten or so, we were sitting on his front porch and I asked him if he had ever killed a person in the war. He was quiet for a long moment before he told that he didn't know. I thought that was a dumb answer. I was a kid, I didn't know better.

I got the same answer from my grandpa as well, and I never really knew what he meant, but after reading your post he may have meant just that. He was a Glider Pilot in S. France, Market-Garden, and Varsity, and he told me goofy stories too about holding up in a house and finding a wine cellar, or stealing someone's old Model T and driving it back to base with other pilots in tow. Of everything he told me he never gave a straight answer about killing someone. I guess you have to find a way to justify it.

sheeplady · Jun 30, 2011

Bluebird Marsha said:
How can you possibly expect to continue that charade? The unmasking is going to be very public, and very humiliating. How could it possibly be worth it?

The problem with habitual liers is that they have often lied so much that they believe their lies. They have told the lie so many times that they have come to believe it is true.

Military Fakes- sometimes you just have to share the joke...

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One of the Regulars

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