"Battleship"

MisterCairo said:

We only recently (less than a year) returned to it being the RCAF and, for the navy, the RCN and the army the Canadian Army. The RCN's officers also as part of their centenary celebrations got back the executive curl to their rank insignia.

As part of our "unification" in 1968, they eliminated our three branches, gave EVERYONE green (army) uniforms, EVERYONE army rank names, and curiously EVERYONE naval rank insignia for officers (gold stripes). In 1986 we returned to "distinctive environmental uniforms - DEUs - that is, blue, green and navy blue, to return some pride and distinctiveness. Our current government is more traditional and so is slowly returning us to more tradition.

Trust me, I'll be writing my MP about the RCAF rank issue, as you're not the first to point that out! It is odd to be an airforce officer with an army rank and naval stripes...

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I think fewer ties with the UK, rather than more, is the way to go, esp since they don't give a damn about us. Although I used to be a monarchist, I've changed my views and no longer support the use of "Royal" titles. As for air force specific rank names, everyone else around the world seems to get by with captain, major, colonel so I think we can too. And our current federal government doesn't care one whit for tradition - this is just window dressing. Sorry.

MisterCairo said:

We only recently (less than a year) returned to it being the RCAF and, for the navy, the RCN and the army the Canadian Army. The RCN's officers also as part of their centenary celebrations got back the executive curl to their rank insignia.

As part of our "unification" in 1968, they eliminated our three branches, gave EVERYONE green (army) uniforms, EVERYONE army rank names, and curiously EVERYONE naval rank insignia for officers (gold stripes). In 1986 we returned to "distinctive environmental uniforms - DEUs - that is, blue, green and navy blue, to return some pride and distinctiveness. Our current government is more traditional and so is slowly returning us to more tradition.

Trust me, I'll be writing my MP about the RCAF rank issue, as you're not the first to point that out! It is odd to be an airforce officer with an army rank and naval stripes...

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Though ironically the RAF/RCAF uniform and insignia was itself a hybrid of army and navy. The enlisted ranks retained the NCO stripes of the army's Royal Flying Corps (RFC) while the officers' "piston rings" and cap badge were a legacy of the Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS) when the two were merged into the RAF (and by extension the RCAF) in 1918.

My claim to fame (5 minutes in):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfuW8qdg0rk&list=FL3rlnunnPUP8toPMwbKUyPA&index=95&feature=plpp_video

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Outstanding! It's always nice to match a face and voice to the name.

V.C. Brunswick said:

Though ironically the RAF/RCAF uniform and insignia was itself a hybrid of army and navy. The enlisted ranks retained the NCO stripes of the army's Royal Flying Corps (RFC) while the officers' "piston rings" and cap badge were a legacy of the Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS) when the two services were merged into the RAF in 1918.

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It is an interesting history. The Anglo-Canadian air forces were primarily naval in their births as you state. Look at the original (and still UK) ranks at certain levels - Air Commodore, Flight-Lieutenant (Captain army equivalent, naval Lieutenant to this day).

Our navy, I forgot to add, did get its distinct ranks back in the 1970s, so they continue to use Able Seaman, Petty Officer, Sub-lieutenant, Commander, Commodore, etc.

The airforce is still stuck with the American-style army ranks (of course, the USAF came from the US ARMY Airforce, hence its traditional use of army style rank).

History is interesting, military history even more so!

How do you pronounce "Lieutenant" in Canada?
Is it the English way, thus linking it directly to its UK Naval heritage, or the American way and its Air Force?

Saint-Just said:

How do you pronounce "Lieutenant" in Canada?
Is it the English way, thus linking it directly to its UK Naval heritage, or the American way and its Air Force?

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It's "lef-tenant". Many civilians are so used to American pronunciation in movies and television they sometimes use "loo-tenant", but certainly in the forces it's lef.

Also "lef" for our vice-regal appointments, the Lieutenant Governors of our provinces (equivalent at the provincial level of the Governor General at the federal level).

Someone asked me how the "f" sound enters the word "lieutenant".

I tell them the "f" in lieutenant comes from the same place as the "r" in colonel.

Usually gets a laugh and a "good point"!

I always thought colonel was pronounced "Kernel" because they were the centre of our attention

MisterCairo said:

It's "lef-tenant". Many civilians are so used to American pronunciation in movies and television they sometimes use "loo-tenant", but certainly in the forces it's lef.

Also "lef" for our vice-regal appointments, the Lieutenant Governors of our provinces (equivalent at the provincial level of the Governor General at the federal level).

Someone asked me how the "f" sound enters the word "lieutenant".

I tell them the "f" in lieutenant comes from the same place as the "r" in colonel.

Usually gets a laugh and a "good point"!

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Hi

Interesting, I knew that Lieutenant in the British Commonwealth and other countries can be Lef-tenant, as opposed to Loo Tenant (someone renting a loo?). I had thought that Lieutenant Governor was still Loo-Tenant. What do the Brits call the Lords-Lieutenant? Leftenant or Loo-Tenant?

I don't think that the British Commonwealth's use of Lef tenant has any difference between their Army, Navy or Air Forces, aren't they ALL Lef Tenant?

later

1961MJS said:

Hi

Interesting, I knew that Lieutenant in the British Commonwealth and other countries can be Lef-tenant, as opposed to Loo Tenant (someone renting a loo?). I had thought that Lieutenant Governor was still Loo-Tenant. What do the Brits call the Lords-Lieutenant? Leftenant or Loo-Tenant?

I don't think that the British Commonwealth's use of Lef tenant has any difference between their Army, Navy or Air Forces, aren't they ALL Lef Tenant?

later

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I know for certain Lord Lieutenant is Lord LEFtenant. I am not aware of any British or Canadian usage that is formally different. As I mentioned, some Canadians say Lootenant out of habit, hearing it mainly from American films and tv shows. Our newscasters use the "correct" pronuniciation which is a good start.

As for the rest of the Commonwealth, it is mainly "lef"tenant, HOWEVER, I was employed during the RIMPAC exercise in Pearl Harbour, sorry, Harbor, in 2008. The TF commander was a Royal Australian Navy Commodore, and one of the other two JAG officers was an Aussie naval LOOtenant-commander.

I learned from her that in the RAN it is "loo" but in the Australian army and RAAF it is "lef".

That is what she told me in any event. Her rank was always pronounced lootenant commander. In Canada, it's leftenant commander (etc.).

Trivia: The USS Kittyhawk was en route to be scrapped when she was pulled in for her last exercise. There'd been a fire on the USS George Washington (I think that was the carrier). The captain was relieved of command I hear...).


So, is anyone else as fascinated as I am to know how a thread on the movie Battleship evolved to the pronunciation of the word lieutenant?

MisterCairo said:

So, is anyone else as fascinated as I am to know how a thread on the movie Battleship evolved to the pronunciation of the word lieutenant?

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I've been marveling at it myself.

I've also been trying to think of a better plot, set in the golden era, derived from the boardgame - perhaps involving the RCAF.

I suspect that it's just plain topic creep.

1961MJS said:

as opposed to Loo Tenant (someone renting a loo?).

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lol