Failures in a Modern World

Edward said:

Ha!

FWIW, I tend to find the level of service improves exponentially with how well the workforce are treated by their employer. No sense of being valued by the company = no impetus to provide good service on its behalf.

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Exactly. If you're just a disposable part of the machine, you're not going to care one way or another about the quality of the product.

I treat my staff like family, and in return they do their best to serve our customers -- not because Company Policy tells them to, but because *I* tell them to. Makes a very big difference.

hudsonhawk said:

I prefer the big box store over the internet because I can walk in, look over the selection, get what I want, and take it home that very day. Price is irrelevant. I will not buy clothes, hats, shoes, underwear, watches, vehicles, guitars, etc...over the internet. They are things I want to see first hand before I purchase them.

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Possible if one is content with the limited selection "big box" stores have to offer.
For more demanding tastes or specific items not readily available, buying over the internet is a blessing.
Luckily there are also these nifty inventions called tape measure and returns...

@Lizzie & Edward

Fully agreed. This is another reason why I prefer small (family run) stores (the few that are around...) rather than "big box" chain junk-stores.

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sheeplady said:

There's no reason to flip somebody off in this situation. It makes you no better than them. You could have informed them that they lost a sale and walked out without being rude yourself. Instead you used a profane gesture to counter being ignored. You made the world a much ruder place just by that gesture. You faced the decision on how to act in this situation: with dignity or without a shred of dignity. You chose to add more negativity and rudeness to the world just because you were angry.

You can't hold the moral high ground if you've chosen to counter rudeness with more rudeness. When you contact the manager and s/he talks to her/his employees, you're going to be the customer who flipped off her/his staff. It really ruins your credibility.


The world would be a much better place if people followed the Golden Rule more. If you don't like the idea of being flipped off by a store clerk, don't flip off store clerks yourself. You just modeled the exact kind of rude behavior you are so upset about. You wonder why these young people act like this? Because they grew up seeing whole generations of people who think it's appropriate to flip off somebody in public. See it enough and you start to think that how you treat people doesn't matter.

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i have been treated poorly enough conned and robbed enough in the past 6 years that it's time for payback.

Fastuni said:

Possible if one is content with the limited selection "big box" stores have to offer.
For more demanding tastes or specific items not readily available, buying over the internet is a blessing.
Luckily there are also these nifty inventions called tape measure and returns...

@Lizzie & Edward

Fully agreed. This is another reason why I prefer small (family run) stores (the few that are around...) rather than "big box" chain junk-stores.

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I prefer smaller stores as well, just that certain things I prefer to see before I purchase. I recognize that I sometimes miss out because of that quirk. For example, I buy my guitar stuff at a small local music shop, even though there's a big box Guitar Center across the street that sells the exact same item cheaper. I like the personal attention I get from the smaller place. I don't buy cigars over the internet, I prefer my local shop, because I like going in there, getting personal attention, shooting the breeze with the owner, etc. There are, as you point out, limits to local availability of stores as well as their selection, and you just have to manage that best you can.

John in Covina said:

i have been treated poorly enough conned and robbed enough in the past 6 years that it's time for payback.

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V.C. Brunswick said:

I perfectly understand John's anger and frustration. Communication is getting your point across in a manner that others can understand. Unfortunately, for many today, a rude gesture (or worse) is the ONLY language they understand. You just can't be nice anymore because it just goes right over their heads. Either that or they take advantage of you.

Though I suspect that some of these folks are the sort that, given a chance, would flip you off gratuitously and without provocation because they think it's cool and bad@$$.

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So we should totally sink to their level. How is choosing to *not* flip someone off being nice? I thought it was just behaving like a civilized human being. I've never flipped someone off in my life.

John in Covina said:

i have been treated poorly enough conned and robbed enough in the past 6 years that it's time for payback.

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So the next time you get flipped off by somebody, or treated poorly, or conned, remember that the person who did it to you is probably just looking for payback....


I can't believe I'm on a forum about vintage lifestyle that is encouraging people to flip each other off. I also can't believe so many of you flip other people off like it's nothing... and you think you are somehow righteous in your rude behavior. If you want to talk about the degradation of our society and a sense of entitlement, this is a prime example. You all think that because someone treats you badly you're entitled to act any way you want.

I wonder how many of you would flip off your boss if you got pissed at them? What about an elected leader?

sheeplady said:

...I wonder how many of you would flip off your boss if you got pissed at them? What about an elected leader?

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That's one NO vote, he helps work on my paycheck, and one very definite YES vote. The elected "leaders" I've had the (dis)pleasure of meeting over the years haven't earned much in the way of respect and a simple hand gesture makes me feel better while keeping out of trouble...

Later

1961MJS said:

That's one NO vote, he helps work on my paycheck, and one very definite YES vote. The elected "leaders" I've had the (dis)pleasure of meeting over the years haven't earned much in the way of respect and a simple hand gesture makes me feel better while keeping out of trouble...

Later

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:rofl: Right on both accounts.

John in Covina said:

i have been treated poorly enough conned and robbed enough in the past 6 years that it's time for payback.

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After all, two wrongs make a right.

Stanley Doble said:

I blame reincarnation...

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Interesting theory, but your thinking is limited only to living beings on this planet in this dimension. The total number of "souls" in existence is impossible to determine based on our current human understanding of "life, the universe, and everything", but it's safe to say the number of "souls" in existence is far more than the living beings on this planet alone can accommodate, like a line of people waiting outside of a filled-to-capacity restaurant. In the same way the next patron is allowed to enter when a seat becomes available, a "soul" incarnates when a new body becomes available. As such, it is not the number of "souls" increasing the planet's population, it's our human need to procreate that is the cause; the "souls" are merely filling the available "seats".

Now, most people have heard the term "old soul". Naturally, this implies the existence of "young" souls, and this conclusion would be accurate (based on our understanding of the definitions of "old" and "young", that is). So, similar to a child entering kindergarten and not being experienced and/or educated enough to perform complicated mathematical equations, "young souls" are equally inexperienced and uneducated in the "ways" of our world when they inhabit a living being on this planet, especially if it is their first incarnation here. And this is the very reason for reincarnation--to gain knowledge through the various experiences we (each individual "soul", that is) have while incarnated here (or wherever). Imagine finding yourself suddenly transported to a foreign country where you don't know the language or customs. Initially you would be confused, and awkward, and struggle to make your way through this unfamiliar world. But, given enough time, eventually you would learn the language and the customs and acclimate yourself to your new surroundings. This is similar to what "young souls" often experience. Now, multiply that exponentially to include countless dimensions and planes of existence, and it not only becomes easier to understand, but it also explains a great many human behaviors.

I apologize for going so drastically off topic, but I tend to become passionate about this subject...and I'm a bit of a nutcase.

Dragon Soldier said:

I know I mentioned it on another thread but... You guys really don't appreciate the level of customer service you have.

Try Europe for a while and you will know your orders.

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Apparently, this isn't unique to Europe. Way back in the mid-80s a friend and I were approached in a nightclub by two young women who were in town from New Zealand on business, and they wanted to talk to some "real American boys" to discuss some of the cultural differences between the two countries. At one point during the discussion, one of them commented, "Nothing seems to be too much trouble for you Americans." As this was contrary to our experiences as natives in this country, we asked her to expand on her statement. She explained by sharing her experiences while shopping, saying, "The people working in the shops here are very friendly; they always say 'Hello' and offer assistance." When we asked if that was not the case in New Zealand, she replied, "Oh, no. In New Zealand they barely even look at you when you walk into a shop, and if you need help you have to go find someone and you're lucky if they can answer your questions." I've never been to New Zealand, so things may have changed there in the last 30 years...but I doubt it.

John in Covina said:

i have been treated poorly enough conned and robbed enough in the past 6 years that it's time for payback.

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Unfortunately, except for making you feel marginally better for a brief period of time, it probably had no effect whatsoever on the "hipsters" who in all probability laughed it off rather than recognizing it as a condemnation of their sorely lacking work ethic. People like that don't care about angry customers or lost sales; they only care about collecting a paycheck for as long as they can remain under the company's radar, and if they do get terminated they just move on to the next company foolish enough to hire them.

To be clear, I'm not saying I disagree with your action; in fact, I've been there myself too many times to count (except, perhaps, for the hand gesture). But the quote, "Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing," comes to mind, and it's pretty sad that the only genuine recourse the consumer has in situations like this is to complain to a manager...if you can find one...who will probably do little or nothing to rectify the problem.

sheeplady said:

I can't believe I'm on a forum about vintage lifestyle that is encouraging people to flip each other off. I also can't believe so many of you flip other people off like it's nothing... and you think you are somehow righteous in your rude behavior. If you want to talk about the degradation of our society and a sense of entitlement, this is a prime example. You all think that because someone treats you badly you're entitled to act any way you want.

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It's worth keeping in mind that in some towns in the Era, flipping someone off in public could get you hauled before a magistrate on a charge of lewd and lascivious conduct. Thirty dollars or thirty days. And in places where this wasn't the case, flipping someone off was generally seen as an invitation to step out in the alley and get your teeth knocked in.

But nowadays, what does that gesture mean? It doesn't mean *anything,* not anymore. Little kids four or five years old do it to each other in the sandbox. Middle-school girls flip each other off on Facebook. Sock puppets flip each other off on You Tube. It's become a completely meaningless gesture, rendered completely and utterly impotent by constant repetition. It's like the F-word -- just another example of the cheap, witless vulgarity that's smeared across the face of modern society like dung on the walls of a monkey cage.

Want to show your displeasure with someone or something? Step right up and tell them to their face exactly what you think. Take the time to really put it into well-chosen, articulate words. But don't act like a four-year-old in the sandbox. That doesn't do anyone any good.

Time to end this one on a low note.