Pocket flaps on suit coats

Feraud · Jan 27, 2010

skyvue said:
Yeah, I'm always careful to get no break with cuffed trousers.

I prefer this myself.

Marc Chevalier · Jan 27, 2010

skyvue said:
Marc (and anyone else who might know), what silhouette should I aim for in the trousers if I'm aiming for a Thirties look? I have lots of extra fabric in the vertical seams to have them let out, if I wish.

They're currently 9.5 inches at the cuff, and just over 10 inches at the knee.

Should I go wider/fuller? Does the fact that it's a sack jacket impact what I should do with the trousers?

Here's the quandary: your style of sack suit, while certainly extant and even popular in the 1930s, is not associated (by people today) with the '30s. So ... what do you want to do? Keep the trousers in line with the classic sack suit style, or make the trousers look 'stereotypically' 1930s?

In the '30s, there were many different trouser styles to choose from. Below is a page from a 1939 Sears catalog. Sack suits (like yours) had trousers like those on the far left side ("Style # 220"): no pleats; a waist that isn't too high; legs that are neither too wide nor too narrow, with a very slight taper from the knee to the bottom; 1 3/4" cuffs. Here's the text:

"Conservative trousers. 1-button waistband. Belt loops, suspender buttons. Flap to pocket on left hip pocket if wanted. Average width: 20-21 in. knee, 17 ½ to 19 in. bottom. 1 ¾ in. cuff…."

.

skyvue · Jan 27, 2010

Marc Chevalier said:
Conservative trousers. 1-button waistband. Belt loops, suspender buttons. Flap to pocket on left hip pocket if wanted. Average width: 20-21 in. knee, 17 ½ to 19 in. bottom. 1 ¾ in. cuff…."

Sounds as though the trousers are fine as they are, then.

Thanks.

Marc Chevalier · Jan 27, 2010

skyvue said:
Sounds as though the trousers are fine as they are, then.

They probably are. The only differences: "conservative" trousers in the 1930s had a slightly higher waist and longer fly than their '70s descendants. Also, 1970s conservative trousers tend to have straight legs, whereas '30s ones had a very slight taper.

.

avedwards · Jan 27, 2010

Marc, I seem to like asking you random slightly

fftopic: questions on these sort of threads.

When the trousers have both brace buttons and belt loops, what does the back look like? Do they look just like "normal" modern trousers except that there are brace buttons inside, or do they have a fishtail back?

In fact, perhaps I should just ask whether trousers using button on braces should always have a fishtail back or is a straight horizontal top acceptable?

Marc Chevalier · Jan 27, 2010

avedwards said:
When the trousers have both brace buttons and belt loops, what does the back look like? Do they look just like "normal" modern trousers except that there are brace buttons inside, or do they have a fishtail back?

In fact, perhaps I should just ask whether trousers using button on braces should always have a fishtail back or is a straight horizontal top acceptable?

The trousers on practically all mass-produced '30s-'40s American suits did not have fishtail backs. They looked like normal modern trousers at the back, but with brace buttons. I don't know why this was so.

Fishtail backs are very occasionally found on '30s-'40s American formal day (striped) trousers: the kind that were worn with morning/cutaway coats or strollers.

.

avedwards · Jan 27, 2010

Marc Chevalier said:
The trousers on practically all mass-produced '30s-'40s American suits did not have fishtail backs. They looked like normal modern trousers at the back, but with brace buttons. I don't know why this was so.

Fishtail backs are very occasionally found on '30s-'40s American formal day (striped) trousers: the kind that were worn with morning/cutaway coats or strollers.

.

Thank you.

So if I were considering wearing braces occaisionally all I would have to do would be to attatch brace buttons to the inside of a pair of sufficiently high waisted trousers?

Marc Chevalier · Jan 27, 2010

avedwards said:
Thank you.

So if I were considering wearing braces occaisionally all I would have to do would be to attatch brace buttons to the inside of a pair of sufficiently high waisted trousers?

Yep!

.

skyvue · Feb 16, 2010

I posted some "after" pics of the suit for which I started this thread over in the Show Us Your Suits thread, for those who might be interested:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?p=961159#post961159

Flat Foot Floey · Sep 10, 2014

BUMP
Let's discuss pocket flap shapes. Sometimes we fidn 80s or RL beltbacks with pocket flaps and some people prefer to remove them to avoid a 70s look. But do they really always look 70s? Same with pockets that have buttoned flaps. Always remove? Let's use this thread to both show vintage pictures of suits or sportcoats with flaps and post pictures of post 40s jackets to decide if they need the "operation" or not.
1920s to 40s because 1910s pocket flaps were wacky as ****.

Erna Schilling, Walter Kirchner and Ernst Ludwig Kirchner 1923

1936, Hungary

Åhlén & Holm Spring/Summer 1934

Pocket flaps on a stroller jacket 1939

Pockets with buttons 1929

herringbonekid · Sep 10, 2014

i'm a flap fan, especially on feature-heavy rugged sports jackets !

i think they only look 70s on a jacket that already looks 70s for other reasons, e.g. the lapel shape, the overall cut, the shoulders etc.

Fastuni · Sep 10, 2014

The vast majority of my genuine 30-40's street-suits have pocket flaps. I prefer a jacket to have them... unless it is black formal wear, of course.

A hallmark of many 70's jackets is the use of large square-edged "DB" flaps on SB jackets. That always looks a bit odd to me.

I agree though that buttoned pocket flaps on 70-80's tweeds tend to look very overloaded. Removing them often helps achieve a cleaner look.

Flat Foot Floey · Sep 10, 2014

Yeah. I found it odd that many people seem to hate them. Therefore the thread grave digging.
What about the flaps with buttons? Seems to be popular in the late 20s?

herringbonekid · Sep 10, 2014

Flat Foot Floey said:
Seems to be popular in the late 20s?

popular in all of the 20s !

SteveAS · Sep 10, 2014

herringbonekid said:
i think they only look 70s on a jacket that already looks 70s for other reasons, e.g. the lapel shape, the overall cut, the shoulders etc.

I agree completely with this sentiment.

herringbonekid · Sep 10, 2014

SteveAS said:
I agree completely with this sentiment.

caveat: i think Fastuni is right; that there were some bigger pocket flaps around in the 70s than there were in the 20s-40s.
i wonder if anyone has actually 'saved' such a jacket though by removing the flaps ?

Boinciel · Sep 12, 2014

I think it might be possible to "save" a well-made 70s jacket by shortening the flaps to around 2" long, rather than removing them outright.

herringbonekid · Sep 12, 2014

Boinciel said:
I think it might be possible to "save" a well-made 70s jacket by shortening the flaps to around 2" long, rather than removing them outright.

would it pass for 30s if the pocket flaps are removed or shortened, or would the 70s-ness of the rest of the jacket still come through loud and clear ?
i suspect the latter, but would be happy to see a success story.

Fastuni · Sep 12, 2014

I also doubt that changing the flaps can greatly "improve" a clearly 70's jacket if all the other features are not very 30's like.

Besides that, large squarish pocket flaps are also to be found on bona-fide 30's suits:

Dane Holder · Sep 19, 2014

It depends on the cut an era of the suit

Pocket flaps on suit coats

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