Pocket flaps on suit coats

[skyvue]

Does the length (width? Not sure of proper term) of a pocket flap on a suit jacket provide a clue regarding the suit's age?

I have a three-piece suit I can't quite date, and the pocket flaps are really wide.

I'm having the coat taken in and I'd consider having the flaps shortened, but I don't want to spoil a key period detail out of ignorance.

Here is murky pic of one of the flaps (they're just under 2 7/8" wide long) and a terrible shot of me in the coat and vest, if anyone wants to venture a guess as to the age of the suit (I can't find a union tag, dang it). You can just make out the flaps in the picture of me -- are they too long?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Does the length (width? Not sure of proper term) of a pocket flap on a suit jacket provide a clue regarding the suit's age?

It sure does.


Your suit is a conservative, natural-shoulder "sack" model from the early to mid 1970s. The flap width is appropriate to that era.


If you're so inclined, have the flaps narrowed a bit. Any tailor can do it.


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[Feraud]

And a quick, temporary solution could be to tuck the flap in the pocket?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

And a quick, temporary solution could be to tuck the flap in the pocket?

The key word here is "temporary." As you know, natural-shoulder sack suits always have pocket flaps: they're an integral part of the look. Hiding the flaps would make the suit an odd hybrid.


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[skyvue]

It sure does.
Your suit is a conservative, natural-shoulder "sack" model from the early to mid 1970s. The flap width is appropriate to that era.
If you're so inclined, have the flaps narrowed a bit. Any tailor can do it.
.

Wow, is that disappointing -- 1970s?

sigh...

Is there any chance you're wrong? (he asks, hopefully)

And if not, what could I ask a tailor to do (aside from shortening the pocket flaps) to give the suit more of a late '30s/early '40s flair? Not enough to fool the experts like yourself but to convince the average vintage fan like me (though I, sap that I am, was already sufficiently fooled to purchase the darned suit).

Can, for example, shoulder pads be added after the fact?

And what's a good length to ask for on the pocket flaps?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Wow, is that disappointing -- 1970s?

sigh...

Is there any chance you're wrong? (he asks, hopefully)

And if not, what could I ask a tailor to do (aside from shortening the pocket flaps) to give the suit more of a late '30s/early '40s flair? Not enough to fool the experts like yourself but to convince the average vintage fan like me (though I, sap that I am, was already sufficiently fooled to purchase the darned suit).

Can, for example, shoulder pads be added after the fact?

And what's a good length to ask for on the pocket flaps?

It really is from the 1970s. Here's the good news: traditional makers of that era ("Brooks Brothers", "Phelps Wilger", and a host of others) were still producing very good quality, U.S.-made suits whose design had hardly changed since the 1920s.


Plenty of 1930s suits had natural shoulders. Sack suits were in fashion among Ivy League kids, bankers, industrialists and some members of Congress throughout the decade. There's no need to pad the shoulders of yours.


For a more '30s look, the pocket flaps should be 2 1/4 inches wide ... and the center vent should be reduced in length, if not closed entirely. (Ventlessness is stereotypical of the 1930s, though sack suits have had vents since the 1800s. Nonetheless, I have seen ventless sack suits from the '30s, so they did exist.)


Also, you should steam press the lapels so that they gracefully curve (or "roll") to the top button, instead of being folded flat against the chest. Suit jackets of the 1930s (sack suits included) always had rolled lapels -- ideally.


.

 

[skyvue]

Thanks, Marc.

The label on the suit reads, "Strathmore Clothes -- Tailored by Lee,McClain Company, Shelbyville, Ky."

Do you have any info about either Strathmore Clothes or the Lee,McClain Company?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The label on the suit reads, "Strathmore Clothes -- Tailored by Lee,McClain Company, Shelbyville, Ky."

Do you have any info about either Strathmore Clothes or the Lee,McClain Company?

I only know that they were around for a long time.

Oh, and don't forget to roll the lapels!


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[avedwards]

Marc, how is it possible to roll the lapels of a two button suit? I know how it works on a three button suit when only the middle one is done up as I managed to achieve this effect on a modern suit. How is it possible though when the top button is fastened?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

How is it possible though when the top button is fastened?

An example of rolled lapels on a 2-button suit. Note how the lapels curve, rather than fold into a crease and lie flat.

 

[Marcus]

This reminds me about a suit that I was curious about. I bought this knowing it was 70's, but it had the vintage flare to it.

Marc, how badly does it jump out as a 70's suit. I'm not "trained enough" to point out issues and so I would appreciate your opinion and any possible solutions. If it's hosed...please tell me

 

[avedwards]

An example of rolled lapels on a 2-button suit. Note how the lapels curve, rather than fold into a crease and lie flat.

What happens to the roll when the top button is fastened?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

What happens to the roll when the top button is fastened?

Nothing special happens when the top button of a two-button jacket is fastened. The roll is not affected by the button, fastened or not.


.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

This reminds me about a suit that I was curious about. I bought this knowing it was 70's, but it had the vintage flare to it.

Marc, how badly does it jump out as a 70's suit. I'm not "trained enough" to point out issues and so I would appreciate your opinion and any possible solutions. If it's hosed...please tell me.

The tell-tale clues are the lapels, which are slightly more angular, flat, and far less rolled than those of '30s suits; the wide-open, gaping lapel notches; the long vents; and the wide pocket flaps. Also, the waistcoat is a somewhat longer than the '30s ones.


That said, the suit has many '30s features: its jacket has moderately padded shoulders and a nipped-in waist, the waistcoat has four pockets, and the wool (flannel?) windowpane fabric is very 'golden era'.


Though you don't show them, the trousers are the real giveaway: no doubt they have slanted or horizontal front pockets, a somewhat low waist and short fly, and slightly flared legs from the knees down. Taken together, those details are very '70s, not '30s.

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[Marcus]

I don't have photos of pants unfortunately. I will have to check those out.

Forgive the ignorance, but can you tell me exactly what the "vents" are?

The openings in the back of the coat?

 

[thunderw21]

The openings in the back of the coat?

Yup.

Another tell-tale sign of that suit being '70s are the trouser hip pockets: they're not vertical but rather nearly horizontal like jeans pockets (as Marc mentioned). While that style has been around for a while it became popular (on suits) in the '70s.

 

[skyvue]

Yup.

Another tell-tale sign of that suit being '70s are the trouser hip pockets: they're not vertical but rather nearly horizontal like jeans pockets (as Marc mentioned). While that style has been around for a while it became popular (on suits) in the '70s.

My hip pockets are, thankfully, vertical.

Marc (and anyone else who might know), what silhouette should I aim for in the trousers if I'm aiming for a Thirties look? I have lots of extra fabric in the vertical seams to have them let out, if I wish.

They're currently 9.5 inches at the cuff, and just over 10 inches at the knee.

Should I go wider/fuller? Does the fact that it's a sack jacket impact what I should do with the trousers?

 

[cptjeff]

My hip pockets are, thankfully, vertical.

Marc (and anyone else who might know), what silhouette should I aim for in the trousers if I'm aiming for a Thirties look? I have lots of extra fabric in the vertical seams to have them let out, if I wish.

They're currently 9.5 inches at the cuff, and just over 10 inches at the knee.

Should I go wider/fuller? Does the fact that it's a sack jacket impact what I should do with the trousers?

The lower leg would need to be tapered (and cuffed, if it's not already). And very little or no break, but I wouldn't go as high as the fella in the center. Here's an image from one of the catalog threads linked to on the top of the forum:

 

[skyvue]

Tapered more than from 10.25" to 9.5", would you say?

Yeah, I'm always careful to get no break with cuffed trousers.

I've see some Thirties trousers that seemed not to be tapered and were cut rather wide, but perhaps they were of a more casual style.

 

[cptjeff]

Tapered more than from 10.25" to 9.5", would you say?

Yeah, I'm always careful to get no break with cuffed trousers.

I've see some Thirties trousers that seemed not to be tapered and were cut rather wide, but perhaps they were of a more casual style.

No clue on actual measurements, especially considering that I don't know your size.

Take 'em in to a tailor and show him the photo of what you want. The key is that the trousers be quite loose but taper to get that nice drape without tons of fabric at the bottom. When standing straight, they shouldn't touch much of the front of your leg at all.

And the trousers you have may indeed be of a different style. There were certain young men's looks that involved using as much fabric as they could possibly envision using in pants.