Does this seem suspicious to you?

moehawk · Jun 18, 2015

I have been looking for a good source for felt online that isn't too terribly expensive. So, yesterday I sent an email to Tonak, out of the Czech Republic, through their Hatparade site requesting a price list for all their fur felt products. Today I receive a reply stating that they don't operate that way, that I must place an order, then afterward they will tell me what my order cost. Does anyone else think that is an odd way to do business, or is that practice common in Europe? I find it difficult to place an order without knowing what the cost is beforehand.

fabiovenhorst · Jun 18, 2015

Very odd... [huh]

Bob Roberts · Jun 18, 2015

Try FEPSA.

moehawk · Jun 18, 2015

I sent an email to Fepsa inquiring about beaver felt, as I didn't see it on the site. Im hoping they reply soon. I'm also considering Wolfram Kopka, as they have beaver (in two colors only though) plus lots of rabbit and/or hare bodies in a ton of colors. They also have a big selection of straw bodies including some Ecuadorian and Milan. Biggest thing Im wondering is how much of a beating I'm going to take on shipping.

Qvist · Jun 18, 2015

moehawk said:
I have been looking for a good source for felt online that isn't too terribly expensive. So, yesterday I sent an email to Tonak, out of the Czech Republic, through their Hatparade site requesting a price list for all their fur felt products. Today I receive a reply stating that they don't operate that way, that I must place an order, then afterward they will tell me what my order cost. Does anyone else think that is an odd way to do business, or is that practice common in Europe? I find it difficult to place an order without knowing what the cost is beforehand.

That´s very odd. Even by European standards.

smoothsailor · Jun 18, 2015

Just place an order, and when its to steep back out. Asumimg that you don,t go all the way with your payment info.
I do it all the time to figure out shipping cost

Joao Encarnado · Jun 18, 2015

moehawk said:
I sent an email to Fepsa inquiring about beaver felt, as I didn't see it on the site.

The FEPSA beaver quality is 100X

carranty · Jun 18, 2015

moehawk said:
I have been looking for a good source for felt online that isn't too terribly expensive. So, yesterday I sent an email to Tonak, out of the Czech Republic, through their Hatparade site requesting a price list for all their fur felt products. Today I receive a reply stating that they don't operate that way, that I must place an order, then afterward they will tell me what my order cost. Does anyone else think that is an odd way to do business, or is that practice common in Europe? I find it difficult to place an order without knowing what the cost is beforehand.

This is definitely not the standard practice in Europe. No one in their right mind is going to commit to an order when they have no idea of the price of it! Do they require you to submit payment info along with the order? If so I'd steer well clear, if not, then you might as well go ahead and place the order, and like smoothsailor says, just back out if it's too steep.

TheDane · Jun 18, 2015

moehawk said:
I have been looking for a good source for felt online that isn't too terribly expensive. So, yesterday I sent an email to Tonak, out of the Czech Republic, through their Hatparade site requesting a price list for all their fur felt products. Today I receive a reply stating that they don't operate that way, that I must place an order, then afterward they will tell me what my order cost. Does anyone else think that is an odd way to do business, or is that practice common in Europe? I find it difficult to place an order without knowing what the cost is beforehand.

It's impossibe to say without having the written question and the written answer at hand, but It sounds very much like the common practice all over. If you mail the Coca Cola Company's main office in Atlanta, asking at what price they will sell you a can of Coke - you'll probably be turned away in a polite tone.

That happens all over the World, when you ask a factory/wholesaler without a hobby outlet. FEPSA does more or less the same. They have a small hobby-store, where you can choose from a very limited (and for fedora making not very useful) stock of bodies. Do you want to buy anything else, they will have to know if you're a "serious" customer. Up until about a year ago, you could access a page like this - but that is only available to customers, already dealing with FEPSA. This page disappeared from public access about the same time, a great number of barefoot hatters "hatched" here on TFL. Coincidence? Probably not!

At FEPSA you are supposed to buy 25 bodies of each blend/color combo, you decide on. You'll have to commit to that to get info on their prices. I guess, it's more or less the same Tonak does, but as said: Noone can know on the basis of the supplied info on the communication.

To me, it's Winchester that's the odd fish in the tank

moehawk · Jun 18, 2015

So what you are saying is that if Im not buying 25 beaver bodies or more Fepsa wont even consider selling me anything but rabbit? If so, then that really sucks. As far as Winchester goes, I have tried to find where they sell bodies and have had no luck.

TheDane · Jun 18, 2015

It may "really suck", but that's life in most businesses. Private hobbyists deal with hobby shops and retailers - professionals deal pro-shops and wholesalers

alanfgag · Jun 18, 2015

Ole, how nice to see you!

Stanley Doble · Jun 18, 2015

Maybe they just want to know what you are interested in so they can give you a quote. It seems odd they don't have a price list but, maybe the price varies according to how many you buy and they don't want to bother explaining all the terms.

You should be able to get a quote without committing to buy at some unknown price.

ingineer · Jun 18, 2015

Ole;

Welcome back missed your posts as well as MoK's
Sorry about your sister , I can empathize having lost my sister mother and father in the last few years .
Thanks for the analogy with the can of Coke
Even with educated Engineers, a lot don't grasp the idea of manufacturing economic quantity.
People have to be payed for setup work on small runs.
What? You want 12 of these and all LOCA tested?

Joao Encarnado · Jun 18, 2015

moehawk said:
So what you are saying is that if Im not buying 25 beaver bodies or more Fepsa wont even consider selling me anything but rabbit?

I ask them for one felt and they replied to get one good felt, 10 or more are needed.

1mach1 · Jun 18, 2015

Bob Roberts said:
Try FEPSA.

+1

TheDane · Jun 18, 2015

Alan: Thank you, I sure missed you guys too, but hats have just been a necessity to cover my head with for a while.

Richard: Thank you too. Loosing family and friends is an inherent part of getting older - but no matter how used you get to loosing, you never seem to get used to loosing [huh]

I think, we all have more or less incomplete views on other businesses than our own. So I guess, we often misunderstand how things work, trying to deal with professional companies. One thing you can't see in the archived page, I linked to before, is the colors. They were listed in a dropdown list, longer than any hat wearer can dream of, under "Aditionals". With the demand for felt bodies it would not be possible to stock hundreds of colors in a very large number of blends, styles and sizes. They have most blends, styles and sizes in stock, but the dyeing is done on order - with a minimum of 10 (25 a year ago).

Sometimes a few extra bodies are put into a dyeing batch, and sometimes orders are changed. Extra or "surplus" bodies like that is what you see in the store - but their business is wholesale.

In all circumstances we should remember, that misunderstandings are lurking behind any language barrier. That's why I tried to point out, that the exact words in the communication with Tonak are very important to try to understand the issue

moehawk · Jun 19, 2015

I do understand now that Fepsa is a mostly wholesale business, it woud be nice if that information were volunteered on the website. It would also be nice if any of the emails I have sent over the last 10 days or so would be answered. So far, the only answer from Fepsa was an automated email stating my email was received on a holiday and would be responded to the next business day. It wasn't, and still hasn't. That's the kind of stuff that frustrates me to no end. I went ack to the hatparade site by Tonak to place an order, couldn't find an order page. That's kind of frustrating too.I guess my next step will be to try to find out how to order from Winchester.

moehawk · Jun 19, 2015

Well, thanks everyone for your input on this. I guess it"s not worth getting too worked up about business practices that I find odd and difficult. I do know that a lot can be lost in translation, and I can't blame someone for awkward English when it is way better than my Czech...

It's nice to meet you, Ole. Sorry it had to be on a day when I was more than a little frustrated. And sorry that you have suffered through the loss of a family member, but glad you are back. You seem to be a bit of a celebrity here!

I hope it means you have a nice collection to show off.

Joao...when I was searching the Fepsa site for beaver bodies the only one they had for offer was a second-quality one undyed that was right up your alley...tall crown and 5+ inch brim. I thought about ordering it but would have been too guilty to cut down the brim

mayserwegener · Jun 19, 2015

I never ordered from Tonak but I visited the factory and I started a hat project that I never completed. They have / had a 60 piece minimum (not small quantities) and the hats had to be all the same color and felt type (they would send me 6 production samples). They sent me their felt color card and sample felts (Velour and Melusine). Also their design group made some sample hats that they sent me photos of. Here is one of them.

Does this seem suspicious to you?

I'll Lock Up

Call Me a Cab

I'll Lock Up

I'll Lock Up

Familiar Face

One of the Regulars

I'll Lock Up

One of the Regulars

Call Me a Cab

I'll Lock Up

Call Me a Cab

Call Me a Cab

One Too Many

I'll Lock Up

Call Me a Cab

I'll Lock Up

I'll Lock Up

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