USAF N-3B parkas - Let's talk about them!!

Does anybody here also have experiences with the m65 parka (with the liner) and how it compares in warmth to the N3B? Both are stated as Parka, Extreme Cold Weather. Just that one is army, one airforce.

Setok said:

Does anybody here also have experiences with the m65 parka (with the liner) and how it compares in warmth to the N3B? Both are stated as Parka, Extreme Cold Weather. Just that one is army, one airforce.

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One of my M-65 field jackets has the liner buttoned in. It is a warm liner, but I can't compare with the N-3b as I have never worn one. I think of the M-65 as a field jacket and not a parka, irrespective of its official nomenclature. The N-3b is truly a parka.

Peacoat said:

One of my M-65 field jackets has the liner buttoned in. It is a warm liner, but I can't compare with the N-3b as I have never worn one. I think of the M-65 as a field jacket and not a parka, irrespective of its official nomenclature. The N-3b is truly a parka.

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Yes, here I specifically mean the M65 parka (the fishtail parka with hood and liner). I imagine that would be warmer than just the field jacket, and intended for use in extreme cold conditions (first used in the winter conditions of the Korean War).

N3B warmer

Setok said:

Yes, but the funny thing is that the early N3Bs would have been way more fire resistant (wool + cotton). So for that particular purpose (an actual flight jacket), it seems an odd choice.

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I don't understand your point. The USAF used nylon flying gear with wool/cotton insulation because that was the best they had at the time. Once flame/heat resistant cloths became feasible and affordable, they switched over completely. The USAF never issued or used nylon jackets with synthetic insulation as flying clothing.

I've got an M-65 Parka (80's run), I had the hood trimmed with vintage fur (synthetic white stuff removed), TBH even my Alpha N-2B (synthetic interlining) is warmer, these Parka's come up big to go over other kit, I wear mine mainly for it's water repellent qualities in colder weather.

Coldest weather, I wear an N-2A or early N-2B.

bn1966 said:

I've got an M-65 Parka (80's run), I had the hood trimmed with vintage fur (synthetic white stuff removed), TBH even my Alpha N-2B (synthetic interlining) is warmer, these Parka's come up big to go over other kit, I wear mine mainly for it's water repellent qualities in colder weather.

Coldest weather, I wear an N-2A or early N-2B.

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Thanks. I assume that is with the lining on the M-65 parka? Meaning it’s not that warm even in that configuration. Still a cool piece of clothing.

Doctor Damage said:

I don't understand your point. The USAF used nylon flying gear with wool/cotton insulation because that was the best they had at the time. Once flame/heat resistant cloths became feasible and affordable, they switched over completely. The USAF never issued or used nylon jackets with synthetic insulation as flying clothing.

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That is the point I was aiming at: there are many (supposedly?) authentic N-3Bs out there with a nylon shell and synthetic insulation. A very flammable combination. Even if it were just the pure nylon shell with wool insulation, the result would still be quite flammable. That combination seems like an unusual choice for a pilot (although would be perfectly fine for ground crew).

That’s not a criticism of the jacket itself. It’s quite possible the N-3B or N-2 were never actually used by pilots in their synthetic form. But the general public and the marketing seems to position them as such.

Very cool clothing, lining gives the parka structure (don't wear it without), I've also got a 'winter white' M-65 shell cover for artic camouflage. M-51 Parka from the Korean period was heavier with an attached hood.

Flight wear in the jet age was pretty flammable until the advent of Nomex I believe.

Setok said:

That is the point I was aiming at: there are many (supposedly?) authentic N-3Bs out there with a nylon shell and synthetic insulation. A very flammable combination. Even if it were just the pure nylon shell with wool insulation, the result would still be quite flammable. That combination seems like an unusual choice for a pilot (although would be perfectly fine for ground crew).

That’s not a criticism of the jacket itself. It’s quite possible the N-3B or N-2 were never actually used by pilots in their synthetic form. But the general public and the marketing seems to position them as such.

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There is no evidence that USAF air crews wore nylon jackets with synthetic insulation in flight. I don't know why you keep peddling the notion that they might have. The synthetic insulation was a mod made for the civilian market.

Doctor Damage said:

There is no evidence that USAF air crews wore nylon jackets with synthetic insulation in flight. I don't know why you keep peddling the notion that they might have. The synthetic insulation was a mod made for the civilian market.

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It sounds like you assume I am arguing with you. I assure you I am not, and am happy to bow to superior knowledge (I say that with no sarcasm). Certainly several manufacturers of what they claim to be authentic N-3Bs use synthetics all the way through, while clearly hinting at their use by pilots and crew. But that’s marketing for you.

Hi - just joined and found the information on this website interesting - thanks. So I have a question regarding the Schott Bros. N-3B parkas, did they also make these particular coats under mil contract for the airforce? I would imagine that the quality is similar to their other coats? High quality and made in USA?
Thanks in advance.
Bill

Has anyone owned, or at least seen in person, Schott's 9838 "Satin Flight Parka"? Not a true N3-B replica, but close enough for me...I think I actually prefer the change to snaps instead of buttons for the wind flap, and I like very much the rich deep blue color.
https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/schott...Ge3ZFPHdV_GYDbsHL_sqopbUEW-2t7pYaAhZoEALw_wcB

ron521 said:

Has anyone owned, or at least seen in person, Schott's 9838 "Satin Flight Parka"? Not a true N3-B replica, but close enough for me...I think I actually prefer the change to snaps instead of buttons for the wind flap, and I like very much the rich deep blue color.
https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/schott...Ge3ZFPHdV_GYDbsHL_sqopbUEW-2t7pYaAhZoEALw_wcB

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It looks like they're doing an everyman version of the Buzz Gibson N3B... I agree it looks good, and I agree the snaps would be less fussy than the buttons-and-loops. Very interesting. I guess they realized there might be a market segment between pack-of-smokes Alpha prices and remortgage-your-house Buzz prices.

I like the look of those a lot I had an N3A (original) but it was far too warm to ever be worn by me in the usual UK Fall weather.

This is my N3B - apologies if I’ve posted this before - it’s my age
It’s just right for these below 7 degree C days.

Worked well for me..

I went ahead and purchased one of the Schott 9838 coats in size M and L, because I wasn't sure of the sizing. I'm about 5' 10" and weigh 175 lbs. I usually wear a 40 or 42, depending on the maker of the jacket, and 32 inch waist pants. I already owned an Alpha "Slim-Fit" N3-B, size L and like the way it fits. I ended up choosing the Schott Medium because it felt like it fit almost the same as the Alpha "Slim-Fit" Large, i.e. a comfortable fit without being too big. If I did want extra room for more or thicker layers, the Schott Large would work a little better, but the difference in body width is only one inch measured pit to pit or at the bottom hem.
Here are some observations, comparisons and differences between the two brands:
The Alpha is slightly longer than either of the Schotts, collar seam to hem is 33" vs 30.5"
Perhaps for this reason the Alpha also has a longer front zipper, 30" vs 27". The zipper on both jackets is a one-way metal zipper with the company brand on each, although I have seen Alpha "standard" N3-B coats with a two-way plastic zipper.
The Alpha also has slightly longer sleeves, center of collar to cuff is 36" vs 35", although this is not noticed much when wearing, as the knit cuffs tend to keep the sleeves pushed up on the wrists somewhat instead of allowing them to hang down at full length.
Pit to pit and bottom hem width on the Alpha "Slim-Fit" Large is 24", the same as the Schott Medium. The Schott Large is 25". Both of the Schotts appear to have a roomier cut similar to the standard Alpha (not Slim-Fit) N3-B, although I don't have a standard Alpha on hand to confirm this.
On the Alpha, the drawstring which adjusts the fit at the waist is simply tied to secure the adjustment. On the Schott, there is a nice sliding spring loaded device which sets the adjustment.
The Schott also has a similar adjustment at the bottom hem, while the Alpha does not.
The sleeves on the Alpha are of raglan design, while the Schott sleeves are set-in design. The Alpha does seems to have slightly greater range of motion when raising one's arms over the head.
The sleeves on the Alpha have elbow patches made of the same fabric as the sleeve, so are of double thickness at the elbows. On the Schott, the sleeves are made of the same thick "flight satin" fabric, but do not have elbow patches.
The synthetic fur border on the hood is detachable on both, Alpha attaches with buttons and loops, while Schott attaches with a zipper.
On the Alpha, the exterior wind flat is secured with loops which attach to buttons. On the Schott, the wind flap is secured with five snaps, similar to those which close the pockets.
The inner wind flap behind the zipper is wider and thicker on the Schott product, and quilted to give it more body.
The Alpha pockets are lined with a polyester blend fabric. All the exterior pockets on the Schott are lined with the same synthetic fur which lines the hood.
The Schott also has two interior pockets with vertical openings, one on each side, which snap closed. These are lined with polyester fabric, like the Alpha.
My Alpha coat is sage green outside with orange lining. There are a bunch of other colors also available, including three different blues, black, grey, maroon, and others. At present the Schott is only available in black, or blue. The blue is a very deep cobalt color which I like very much.
I field tested the Schott by hiking for an hour or so at Red Rocks Amphitheatre, on a day with an air temperature of 28 degrees F (said to feel like 18 F). Snow covered the trail in a depth between 3 and 6". With a base layer and a fleece under the Schott, I was comfortable for the entire hike, even becoming slightly warm while hiking uphill. I could probably have done without the fleece.
Overall, both brands appear to be very well made products which should be completely satisfactory if properly fitted, with the Schott offering a few deluxe features not present on the Alpha.

^ Excellent review & observations. Thanks very much for posting!! What size are you in a men's suit, so we can judge the sizes?

Review edited to include personal sizing.