Good Wear-abouts

I am not really sure about this but doesn't he run the whole business by himself? I had a large format screen printing shop back in the early 80's and ran it by myself for 4 years....it about drove me crazy. The craft was wonderful but doing everything on your own can really be a problem.

I know there are several other guys that create some fine leather jackets on their own and I am pretty sure they communicate with John a good bit. I hope it works out for all of them.

Wow! Just wow!

John has always been a gentleman in the dealings I've had with him, and he does make nice jackets, but when I've said in the past that his business model- waiting for years for $1000+ jackets was crazy, I got SLAMMED!

And here we are, 'scam', 'ponzi scam' etc, with no comeback?

I guess the tide has turned; it doesn't matter how good a jacket you can make if your customers never receive one.

He should have stopped taking orders and caught up years ago. And hired a part timer to answer his mails. And maybe hire a trainee to help speed things up.

Ignoring mails, taking more orders, and helping Diamond Dave get into business by spending time on making and size grading cloth and nylon jacket patterns was maybe a bad business decision. It's not like DD is even allowed on any forums to hawk his goods anymore.

ProteinNerd said:

I’m right there with you @Carlos840. It just makes me angry.

The only thing stopping me asking for a refund is I’m assuming he doesn’t read his emails at this point so will you even get the refund?

Click to expand...

The thing here is that he's been fast in the past doing refunds which means he reads his e-mails and decides not to reply on purpose which makes things even worse. You can just see it here as a proof:

Carlos840 said:

I have just received a refund and an apology email from JC.
It's bitter sweet, i wish it didn't end up like that and it didn't take all this to get an answer from him.

Click to expand...

He's been trying to communicate with JC for over a year without any reponse, the moment he asks for a refund: BINGO replied within less than a few days.

I wrote a very lenghty post but I decided to not fan the fire. Let's just leave it at that. The whole situation is ridiculous, while some loungers were waiting for their spot others got the chance to buy like 3-4 jackets from JC and others 1-2 and they weren't even on the queueu. People here have too much patience.

People have learned about many other makers and the whole Goodwear hype has faded. Himel, Freewheelers, Eastman, The Real McCoy's, Buzz Rickson, Thedi Leathers, Whitefeather, Aero and many more....there are so many makers that can produce an amazing leather jacket for less, the same or more price with just a few months waiting time that makes no sense to wait years for a jacket. Specially now that some makers offer MTO and personalized measurements with trial jackets.

Whenever I think of Goodwear, I always think of Michael Angelo and the Sistine Chapel.

I don't want to believe that he's a bad guy, a scammer, or deliberately ignoring mails. It might be true, but I hope it isn't.

I prefer to think of him as an artist making artisanal jackets. It's a passion for him, and all that other stuff isn't. Maybe that's it. And the guy must get hundreds of mails a day. I'd be tempted to ignore them too if I had a huge backlog of orders to complete.

And I'd guess that no matter how passionate you are about doing something, when it's a never ending soul crushing effort to catch up with years of back ordered jackets, that's got to take the fun out of it.

Big J said:

Whenever I think of Goodwear, I always think of Michael Angelo and the Sistine Chapel.

I don't want to believe that he's a bad guy, a scammer, or deliberately ignoring mails. It might be true, but I hope it isn't.

I prefer to think of him as an artist making artisanal jackets. It's a passion for him, and all that other stuff isn't. Maybe that's it. And the guy must get hundreds of mails a day. I'd be tempted to ignore them too if I had a huge backlog of orders to complete.

And I'd guess that no matter how passionate you are about doing something, when it's a never ending soul crushing effort to catch up with years of back ordered jackets, that's got to take the fun out of it.

Click to expand...

Agreed. The whole thing really stinks but I don't think the GW dude is rotten. He's a nice guy who got overwhelmed. Like I said before, happened to me twice. After a while, the backlog got so big I literally could no longer reply to people asking me what's going on. It gets really difficult - no, impossible is a better word - and the strangest thing is, once all of it is resolved, you don't even know what the problem was. But yeah, you just can't deal with it at the time. You can't work either because of it and you end up stuck.

I think that's what's happening with GW. Only it's 100x worse.

There's only one way out of this mess - refund everyone and start all over.

I will drop all skepticism the day @Boyo gets his jacket.
Good to know you were able to get refunded Carlos. That, sadly enough, is good news.

@Monitor, yeah, I agree with that.

The thing is, I think I'd never buy a GW new just because the price is a bit too much for me. I don't see the improvement in quality over, say, an Aero, concordant with the price difference.

Other people do though, and that's fine.

In fact, so many are ok with the price, that JC has a 3?, 4? year backlog. On that basis, (just in business terms) I'd be thinking about increasing prices 50 or 100% in order to reduce the number of orders placed and prevent such a backlog developing. If a year down the line the orders started drying up, I'd consider lowering prices at that time.

Clearly, with this kind of demand making such a huge backlog, the market can tolerate higher prices for GW jackets.

And I'm saying this as someone who hates high priced jackets!

Big J said:

Wow! Just wow!

John has always been a gentleman in the dealings I've had with him, and he does make nice jackets, but when I've said in the past that his business model- waiting for years for $1000+ jackets was crazy, I got SLAMMED!

And here we are, 'scam', 'ponzi scam' etc, with no comeback?

Click to expand...

I caught some of those comments about people with no skin in the game saying John is running a "scam" or "ponzi scam" and didn't offer anything because I assumed they were Russian trolls fomenting discord in the jacket aficionado ranks for some political purpose or are motivated by creating negative sentiment because they envy the people here who actually have some enjoyment in their lives. Are the people who "SLAMMED" you before the same people crying "scam" now?

I'm sorry you had to deal with that because your point was fair that you feel waiting years for an expensive jacket wasn't for you. To be fair to John, I think his business model is making jackets and the wait list is just an unintended feature of his jacket quality and more recently other issues.

John's always been an upstanding gentleman in all my dealings with him as well. I've owned about 10 Goodwear jackets because I can wear John's larger samples and have purchased only three customs from him. It's nice that I can let them move on without losing too much for the experience. The wait has grown appreciably longer since I ordered my jackets and it's unfortunate for the people waiting. I spoke with John in the middle of his button-holer saga and decided against ordering an A-1 from him because of it. I wouldn't order another made-to-order jacket from him until he gets his wait list in order and that's my prerogative as a big fan of GW and of John.

To add to the other post about running a small business solo. John indicated to me that he gets his leather in batches so things don't get made in a linear order of when orders are placed. I interpreted this as being that his supply chain is a disaster and he gets zippers, leather, moutons, etc when he can in quantities that don't require a warehouse so this has to add to the spurious wait times. It doesn't help when you deal in so much dead-stock and you can't have UPS deliver every Tuesday, for example, or have a repair man come by under service warranty. Hiring people as a one-man operation isn't easy since you have to train the person, etc.

Short version - I feel terribly bad for all involved and hope it gets sorted out.

I think it's very helpful when people on the wait list here post their experience. This informs everyone's decision. Airing of grievances is also fair, I feel, when you have money that's been paid, expectations clearly aren't met, and you want to unload what you're experiencing when it doesn't unfairly or inaccurately portray the other party. I hope the negative contributors that are only spectating and essentially commenting from the peanut gallery would find more positive outlets for participating in the forums here. If I wanted moral outrage I'd go to the political forums on CNN or 4chan if CNN wasn't doing it for me.

I think the deposit policy is a double edged sword since if John didn't require a deposit his wait list might grow long with people who are on the fence and it would reach unrealistic lengths. Clearly, better communication would be appreciated by people waiting on jackets or considering entering the wait list. It'd be nice if he kicked back the deposits for people more than 5-6 months out and kept their place in the wait list with the option to pay a couple weeks before production started if they still wanted the jackets. I hope the best for the guys waiting on their jackets. I was caught up in the Aero debacle and waited two years for two jackets that never came (after having paid full price). I didn't appreciate people weighing in with their uninformed opinions on Mark Moye then and I really don't appreciate the jackassery concerning John since I feel he's contributed a lot to the community that enjoys repro jackets and I personally find him to be an honest, earnest guy.

@coloradorider,

I think that's a fair comment.

TBH, I don't remember the names of members who slammed me, there were too many. I can admit that I don't come across well a lot of the time though.

I was interested in why GW was so well regarded, not because of the price (which is at the higher end, but doesn't seem so crazy compared to a lot of recent price hikes in the market), but why people were prepared to wait so long.

I was also interested to know why so many GW jackets turned up used; I wanted to know why people who waited so long moved on their jackets.

I'm on record here (somewhere!) as saying I'd consider paying twice the price for a GW if I thought I could get it in 6-8 weeks (of course, that's never going to happen).

I've also said that I've been soured on the brand after a couple of incidents where guys claiming to be GW owners approached me when I was out in my Aero A-2 and got really elitist and snobby about how they had GW and I couldn't 'go out and buy one' even if I 'had the money', and I just felt I didn't want to be associated with that attitude.

I do feel that there has been a lot of defensiveness about discussing GW, but I've never wanted to criticize someone for choosing GW, I'm just trying to understand what the 'magic' is, and I've been told that even asking the question means I'm not a 'true jacket aficionado' here on TFL.

So yeah, I was kind of blown away by comments in this thread that went by without the batting of an eyelid.

Big J said:

@coloradorider,

I was interested in why GW was so well regarded, not because of the price (which is at the higher end, but doesn't seem so crazy compared to a lot of recent price hikes in the market), but why people were prepared to wait so long.

I was also interested to know why so many GW jackets turned up used; I wanted to know why people who waited so long moved on their jackets.

I've also said that I've been soured on the brand after a couple of incidents where guys claiming to be GW owners approached me when I was out in my Aero A-2 and got really elitist and snobby about how they had GW and I couldn't 'go out and buy one' even if I 'had the money', and I just felt I didn't want to be associated with that attitude.

I do feel that there has been a lot of defensiveness about discussing GW, but I've never wanted to criticize someone for choosing GW, I'm just trying to understand what the 'magic' is, and I've been told that even asking the question means I'm not a 'true jacket aficionado' here on TFL.

So yeah, I was kind of blown away by comments in this thread that went by without the batting of an eyelid.

Click to expand...

LONG POST WARNING!!! Skip now

I think a lot of the regard comes from folks who are really into reproduction A-2's who seem to feel that John makes the most faithful reproductions. I wouldn't say they are the best since that is subjective, but he objectively made the most accurate reproductions when he started. Other makers may have upped the accuracy of their repro's in response to equal GW's but I don't really follow those things. The people who really care about that tend to be on VLJ and I appreciate their passion. What I've been told personally by a collector I trust is that it wouldn't really be possible to make a more accurate repro so GW is the pinnacle in that regard as far as he's concerned. This collector is a WWII collector and said he had seen several of John's contracts and couldn't tell them from the real thing other than they tended to be in better shape and higher quality construction than the majority of originals he had seen. As far as quality of construction goes there's several jacket makers mentioned that make wonderful products so if accuracy isn't your thing you definitely have other options. I've heard the accuracy statement echoed on VLJ and TFL so I've just accepted that GW is as accurate as you can get and it's only possible to equal them in the A-2 repro market.

Exclusivity and arrogance is not what GW and John are about in my opinion. I stopped by Norshor's shop in Minneapolis to buy a jacket and Mark raved about John helping him source leather and making jackets that he loved when I mentioned his jacket reminded me of something GW might make. I think if John was less passion and more business these issues we're hearing about here wouldn't have gotten so out of hand IMO.

I think GW's turn up used for several reasons. John makes a lot of sample jackets in his size and sells them as used. These get resold a lot. I think GW collectors are a little eclectic even by TFL standards since I bought a used Perry Sportswear A-2 from a guy who owned every contract John makes and didn't like the shade of horsehide so he was going to reorder. I bought a second Perry from a different gentlemen who's bought and sold at least a dozen GW's that I know about since they're in my size and I am always looking for a deal. I bought a Modoc on ebay and resold it because I liked my Aero HB slightly better (fit/color) and John mentioned the person who originally bought it has bought A LOT of his jackets. I own two GW A-2's because they look really good and I don't even like A-2's.... BTW if a GW 39 Werber turns up in a big 46 or trim 48 I think I'd probably buy that too... Did I mention I don't really like A-2's. I get the feeling my experience of buying/selling isn't unique in the GW world since A-2's mostly look the same so people tend to cycle through them.

I think asking "What the Magic Is" is a fair question. I personally like John because of the dealings I've had with him and the recounts of other people I know who have dealt with him. He brings a lot of passion to making jackets that really caught fire with some crowds. Some of the magic is that excitement of the real passionate collectors rubbing off on the ordinary folk like me who appreciate what John is doing even though I can't really appreciate the accuracy part since that's not really something I care about deeply (my collector acquaintance mentioned how the stitch orders were the same as the original contracts, for example, where other repros did it just a little different so you had to feel through the lining to find the differences - that's a cool thing to hear but I'd never care to sort that out on my own). I feel his jackets just work really well for me so I really like the ones I have and they're my favorite jackets along with a Langlitz Crescent. I'm sure that if I ordered an Aero with a satin lining got the same hide I'd be equally happy and they'd be the same quality. As it is, I really really like my Aero's and would recommend them enthusiastically to anyone but I love the Goodwears I own. People may have different experiences and that's what makes options great (and expensive).

I'm a little defensive of John here because he's been really great in all my dealings with him and all the positive feedback from other people have really positively colored my perception. This situation sucks for all involved and it's got people out cash while getting no feedback so that's terrible. It's also pretty terrible when the positive expectations during the wait turns sour like this so I sympathize. I appreciate I've been able to air this out in response to your post which was reasonable rather than skipping TFL for a while. Hope GW can sort this out because they really are wonderful jackets and I personally like the artisinal solo operation story in addition to the product. Cheers

@coloradorider,

Thank you for your interesting reply. It all sounds reasonable to me.

I think you also mention something that a couple of people have tried to explain to me about 'the magic'.

I've always found it difficult to accept that GW A-2s are 'the most accurate reproductions of wartime contracts'. This is mainly because JC is basing his repros on (relatively) small sample sizes of each contract, and because his repros are 'too good' compared to the real thing.

I haven't seen hundreds of real A-2s, but all I've seen in real life or photos had bad stitching, misaligned parts, panels that weren't perfectly matching etc. Because these jackets were stitched together in about 25 minutes (?) once the panels were cut, there were almost always imperfections. It's my understanding that GW A-2s don't have these, hence my hesitation to accept they are the best repros. Real jackets weren't perfect (it's also the reason why I think the Aero Real Deal is more representative of WWII jackets).

One member (Hoosierdaddy?) said something like GW jackets were like going to a classic car meet and seeing a car where the owner has detailed the engine bay and stuff to a much better degree than it ever came off the production line. I've kind of reconciled myself to that analogy; GW A-2s are the best that *could* have been made, if there wasn't a need to get them out of the door as quickly as possible and 'good enough' would pass get the inspection stamp.

I can kind of understand that.

coloradorider said:

I caught some of those comments about people with no skin in the game saying John is running a "scam" or "ponzi scam" and didn't offer anything because I assumed they were Russian trolls fomenting discord in the jacket aficionado ranks for some political purpose or are motivated by creating negative sentiment because they envy the people here who actually have some enjoyment in their lives. Are the people who "SLAMMED" you before the same people crying "scam" now?

I'm sorry you had to deal with that because your point was fair that you feel waiting years for an expensive jacket wasn't for you. To be fair to John, I think his business model is making jackets and the wait list is just an unintended feature of his jacket quality and more recently other issues.

John's always been an upstanding gentleman in all my dealings with him as well. I've owned about 10 Goodwear jackets because I can wear John's larger samples and have purchased only three customs from him. It's nice that I can let them move on without losing too much for the experience. The wait has grown appreciably longer since I ordered my jackets and it's unfortunate for the people waiting. I spoke with John in the middle of his button-holer saga and decided against ordering an A-1 from him because of it. I wouldn't order another made-to-order jacket from him until he gets his wait list in order and that's my prerogative as a big fan of GW and of John.

To add to the other post about running a small business solo. John indicated to me that he gets his leather in batches so things don't get made in a linear order of when orders are placed. I interpreted this as being that his supply chain is a disaster and he gets zippers, leather, moutons, etc when he can in quantities that don't require a warehouse so this has to add to the spurious wait times. It doesn't help when you deal in so much dead-stock and you can't have UPS deliver every Tuesday, for example, or have a repair man come by under service warranty. Hiring people as a one-man operation isn't easy since you have to train the person, etc.

Short version - I feel terribly bad for all involved and hope it gets sorted out.

I think it's very helpful when people on the wait list here post their experience. This informs everyone's decision. Airing of grievances is also fair, I feel, when you have money that's been paid, expectations clearly aren't met, and you want to unload what you're experiencing when it doesn't unfairly or inaccurately portray the other party. I hope the negative contributors that are only spectating and essentially commenting from the peanut gallery would find more positive outlets for participating in the forums here. If I wanted moral outrage I'd go to the political forums on CNN or 4chan if CNN wasn't doing it for me.

I think the deposit policy is a double edged sword since if John didn't require a deposit his wait list might grow long with people who are on the fence and it would reach unrealistic lengths. Clearly, better communication would be appreciated by people waiting on jackets or considering entering the wait list. It'd be nice if he kicked back the deposits for people more than 5-6 months out and kept their place in the wait list with the option to pay a couple weeks before production started if they still wanted the jackets. I hope the best for the guys waiting on their jackets. I was caught up in the Aero debacle and waited two years for two jackets that never came (after having paid full price). I didn't appreciate people weighing in with their uninformed opinions on Mark Moye then and I really don't appreciate the jackassery concerning John since I feel he's contributed a lot to the community that enjoys repro jackets and I personally find him to be an honest, earnest guy.

Click to expand...

I can't help but feel like your post is somewhat about me...

The fact that you had good luck with him doesn't excuse the crap customer service he has provided over the last three years. You can't say "he did good to me years ago" and ignore his current way of acting.

I still think what he is doing currently is close to a scam.
He takes $200 from people telling them they will have a jacket in two years or less, knowing fully well he is incapable of delivering that jacket in time.
If you are in a situation where you are making money from deposits, without sending any of the ordered jackets out, that you use the new deposit money to refund old cancelled orders, to order your supplies and to live from, whilst at the same time ignoring all communication from people who have paid you more than four years ago, you are IMO on a slippery slope.

IMO a Gentleman would have stopped taking in orders and refused to take more deposits until the situation was sorted and the wait time was under control. He didn't do that.
Why? Because deposits are his main cash flow.

When Lawless Denim did the same thing everybody was OK calling them a scam, but for some reason JC has defenders that are ready to ignore his wrong doings and continue to feed his mystique.

I find it interesting that you would also defend Mark Moye even though you were scammed out of two jackets by him...

TBH, I don't think there are any Russian trolls that would bother in such a niche area of the internet...they most likely have other preys in mind

coloradorider said:

It'd be nice if he kicked back the deposits for people more than 5-6 months out and kept their place in the wait list with the option to pay a couple weeks before production started if they still wanted the jackets.

Click to expand...

That is a great idea and would clear out most of the bad feelings building up!

I really can't find any good reason as to why he would not close his waiting list until it's back to a manageable level, and to be fully transparent, I have a deposit with him since November 2016 which is much later than a lot of people here.

Edit: Since you are a good customer of his and can reach him where other legitimate customers can't - another reason for negative emotions - could you get in touch with John and pass him your idea and let us know his thoughts? If I can push this further, could you act as a liaison between us here and him? I only ask this because I found him impossible to reach

Second edit: grammar and typo in the first edit

Carlos840 said:

I can't help but feel like your post is somewhat about me...

The fact that you had good luck with him doesn't excuse the crap customer service he has provided over the last three years. You can't say "he did good to me years ago" and ignore his current way of acting.

I still think what he is doing currently is close to a scam.
He takes $200 from people telling them they will have a jacket in two years or less, knowing fully well he is incapable of delivering that jacket in time.
If you are in a situation where you are making money from deposits, without sending any of the ordered jackets out, that you use the new deposit money to refund old cancelled orders, to order your supplies and to live from, whilst at the same time ignoring all communication from people who have paid you more than four years ago, you are IMO on a slippery slope.

IMO a Gentleman would have stopped taking in orders and refused to take more deposits until the situation was sorted and the wait time was under control. He didn't do that.
Why? Because deposits are his main cash flow.

When Lawless Denim did the same thing everybody was OK calling them a scam, but for some reason JC has defenders that are ready to ignore his wrong doings and continue to feed his mystique.

I find it interesting that you would also defend Mark Moye even though you were scammed out of two jackets by him...

Click to expand...

TBH - I'm not interested in attribution so if you feel my post is about you so be it. Scam implies taking money for something you have no intention of delivering and I just don't believe that's the case.

If someone has paid GW a deposit and had a bad experience I'd encourage them to share the details and experience here. If a person hasn't then I consider they're just adding noise to the conversation. It's just that if someone isn't adding new information to the thread or supporting the individuals who have been affected then it's just negative noise. 4chan is wonderful for people who enjoy this kind of thing and I wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone who likes to stir the pot.

I agree that GW needs to communicate more accurately, ideally would communicate accurate wait list times and take orders as they will, and do something for people currently on the wait list who have no hope of reasonably receiving their jackets close to an agreed upon time frame. My experience with GW averaged about 18 months on the wait list.

I'm not defending Mark Moye other than I don't know what his situation was and ignorant people (read lacking first-hand knowledge or information) commenting on the situation wasn't helpful. I didn't think it was reasonable that Mark Moye was an upstanding guy for 20 years just to set-up a scam where he bilked people out of jacket payments so I preferred to give him the benefit of the doubt. I wanted my money back (about 6 months of hounding Paypal made that happen) and was righteously pissed until that happened. Talking shit about Mark wouldn't improve my situation, sharing facts would inform other members. Most of the long-time members had a difficult time reconciling Mark's actions with their experience so there was a lot of defending of Mark at first too. The "You're wrong, Mark is great crowd" only worked to keep a lid on how bad things were getting with Mark and the wait times. The "Mark was always great to me, your situation sucks crowd" offered a more balanced take on the situation and encouraged people to share their stories and info. I think this crowd is part of what makes TFL a good place to visit when things don't go well. Sharing negative info on GW is equally shocking to those who have experience with John so that's the only parallel I'm drawing between the two.

I hope you read my post as I don't agree with what's going on. I hope GW is able to get ahead of this eventually. I hope the people who are affected can get out of this with some measure of satisfaction. Finally, my experience with GW is just that, my experience, so use that as a bit of information on your take of the situation. I may also have a little sensitivity to this since I spent a couple weeks with my dad after he had a stroke. He recovered very well and is doing well now. John had a family situation described on the GW website so this also colors my opinion of the situation. GW shuts down when John isn't able to do what he does so that's the risk with solo operations for people thinking about placing an order.

If he's giving refunds on request it isn't a scam only terrible customer service.

red devil said:

Edit: Since you are a good customer of his and can reach him where other legitimate customers can't - another reason for negative emotions - could you get in touch with John and pass him your idea and let us know his thoughts? If I can push this further, could you act as a liaison between us here and him? I only ask this because I found him impossible to reach

Click to expand...

I really feel for you guys who are waiting on orders since I personally feel bad information is better than no information.

I don't have a bat phone for John and have no idea why I've never had issues getting a hold of him in the past. John and I haven't talked since I called to check on the providence of a Modoc I bought off ebay. It was advertised as a Ventura and I didn't recognize the design when it showed up and thought I might have been sent the wrong jacket. I sold it on TFL a couple years ago.

I don't really understand then why you would call people not to stir the pot with their current experiences or opinions but you're bringing up experiences from at least 2 years ago when you sold a GW jacket you got off Ebay and contacted him to ask about the provenance. That isn't helpful either, is it? Your experience from 2 years ago isn't the same as today.

If we backtrack a bit more then the first ones to order could be saying that he delivered in barely months wait but that isn't helpful either. What matters is what's happening now.

The point is that as of today GW has a beyond terrible customer service towards those whose jacket is not in the making at the moment. He only gets back to the emails asking for a refund (See here @Carlos840 example) and to those who are buying sample jackets (Which are always the same sizes 44-46 fit) or used which are almost all the time offered first to previous customers.

You sure can understand why people get pissed off. He does seem to have time for plenty of samples and to help Norshor to sell stuff through his page but not to attend the already existing waiting line.

Being MIA and not communicating doesn't help at all and people are going to especulate. You can't prevent that and trying to shut people up isn't a very nice way to go about it.

He could be the best jacket maker in the whole universe, that's no excuse for the lack of response. He didn't even have to send personal e-mails, a general message to the customers in the website would be enough for most. Honesty goes a long way, specially in these niche hobbies. A statement explaining the situation involving the brand, the business and why there wouldn't be any response for a period of time. Anything but ghosting the clients would be just fine.

This is a forum and in a forum there's debate and opinions. I just don't like when people tell others what they should or should not talk about. I don't have skin in the game but I certainly won't stop posting my opinion just because someone doesn't like "noise" and has the courage to tell others to go to 4chan to stir the pot.

It's quite funny though, the thread was asleep until you came to stir the pot yourself telling others what to do and what not to do.

@Carlos: IMO you nailed it and I 100% agree to you that a real gentleman would be honest to his customers telling them the truth about the waiting time and not the way JC is doing!!

Carlos840 said:

I can't help but feel like your post is somewhat about me...

The fact that you had good luck with him doesn't excuse the crap customer service he has provided over the last three years. You can't say "he did good to me years ago" and ignore his current way of acting.

I still think what he is doing currently is close to a scam.
He takes $200 from people telling them they will have a jacket in two years or less, knowing fully well he is incapable of delivering that jacket in time.
If you are in a situation where you are making money from deposits, without sending any of the ordered jackets out, that you use the new deposit money to refund old cancelled orders, to order your supplies and to live from, whilst at the same time ignoring all communication from people who have paid you more than four years ago, you are IMO on a slippery slope.

IMO a Gentleman would have stopped taking in orders and refused to take more deposits until the situation was sorted and the wait time was under control. He didn't do that.
Why? Because deposits are his main cash flow.

When Lawless Denim did the same thing everybody was OK calling them a scam, but for some reason JC has defenders that are ready to ignore his wrong doings and continue to feed his mystique.

I find it interesting that you would also defend Mark Moye even though you were scammed out of two jackets by him...

Click to expand...

We have a member who has waited over 5 years for his jacket. 5 years!!! That is really all that needs to be said. There is no debate. Period and end of story. If people wish to fling themselves like lemmings into that queue. Best of luck. There is a clear and obvious problem and @willyto spelled it out perfectly.

Has to be said, by now anyone who is a member of this forum knows the state of play with Good Wear. You pay your money and you make your choice. Personally, I love my Dubow, it's a work of art and the pleasure I get from wearing it will last far longer the memory of the palaver getting it in the first place. I'm now waiting patiently for my next order. Having got one already, I know what I'll get when my time comes, so I'm absolutely relaxed about this.

Sloan1874 said:

Has to be said, by now anyone who is a member of this forum knows the state of play with Good Wear. You pay your money and you make your choice. Personally, I love my Dubow, it's a work of art and the pleasure I get from wearing it will last far longer the memory of the palaver getting it in the first place. I'm now waiting patiently for my next order. Having got one already, I know what I'll get when my time comes, so I'm absolutely relaxed about this.

Click to expand...

How long was your wait again?