STEP BY STEP NAPTHA BATH

Mustang Mike's Hats · Sep 5, 2018

I've done these baths on hats before and, from my personal experience, one of the factors is the condition of the sweatband before it goes in. With newer hats, not a big concern but with really older hats, if the sweatband is already starting to deteriorate you may run into a problem with it. Not too long ago, I had to replace a sweatband on a hat that had a lot of miles of wear on it. Conditioning didn't help in this case.

Tukwila · Sep 5, 2018

When I treated the sweatbands on hats I cleaned before a naptha bath, it didn't seem to make much difference in protecting the sweat from the apparent drying effect of the naptha. And since I had a seemingly nice sweat on a late 50s Royal Stetson deteriorate after treating the underside, I don't do that anymore.

Lexol and several other leather treatments are mostly water based and I am guessing that may be the problem with borderline leather sweatbands.

I now have 3 different kinds of Pecard leather dressing, and the one I use mostly for sweatbands - especially vintage 40s-50s sweatbands - is the Pecard Antique Leather Dressing (PALD).

On the aforementioned Royal Stetson, I carefully turned out the sweat and treated both sides with the PALD, and while it didn't fix any damage I believe it is helping the leather hold it's current state well.

The PALD is an oil/grease/wax/fat based dressing and needs time to absorb. Once it does, the leather is fairly supple and has no greasy residue. It may take several days to absorb.

I gave my daughter's vintage Knox Tom n Jerry a bath yesterday. The sweat was already dry and cracked and I knew I was taking a chance of ruining it beyond repair, but the felt needed a complete, thorough cleaning. I tried spot cleaning, but the clean spots stuck out badly next to the rest of the dirty felt.

After drying, the sweat looked only a little worse for wear so I gently applied the PALD to the outside only. Turning out the sweat would have probably ruined it completely. One spot was dry, cracked and sticking out; warped, curled and dry. This morning, while the leather still has cracks, it is softer and nearly supple without any added damage, and there is no greasy/waxy residue. Gentle enjoyment of the hat - with original Knox sweat - is still possible for several more years before complete replacement may become necessary.

J Williams · Aug 30, 2019

I'm thinking of trying this on a recently acquired OR that's in need of a good cleaning so I thought I would revive this thread after reading through it. There is some talk of damage to the liners - but it seems to be fairly minimal. This hat has the embroidered last drop liner. Does anyone have any thoughts on giving this a naptha bath? Should I remove the liner first? The liner is pretty yellowed, it would be great to get it cleaned up some as well, but aside from being dirty everything is intact and in good shape.

deadlyhandsome · Aug 30, 2019

J Williams said:
I'm thinking of trying this on a recently acquired OR that's in need of a good cleaning so I thought I would revive this thread after reading through it. There is some talk of damage to the liners - but it seems to be fairly minimal. This hat has the embroidered last drop liner. Does anyone have any thoughts on giving this a naptha bath? Should I remove the liner first? The liner is pretty yellowed, it would be great to get it cleaned up some as well, but aside from being dirty everything is intact and in good shape.

I say remove the liner and try some Oxyclean to clean it.

I’d also caution that if the sweatband has suffered dry rot, not always apparent, the solvent can cause the leather to delaminate, flake, and/or curl.

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Tukwila · Aug 30, 2019

Make sure your mix of oxiclean is diluted correctly. That stuff is strong and using a stronger blend can cause damage.

The white gas can dry out the sweatband, but I've had more problems trying to rehydrate the leather with water based leather conditioner.

Frunobulax · Aug 30, 2019

J Williams said:
I'm thinking of trying this on a recently acquired OR that's in need of a good cleaning so I thought I would revive this thread after reading through it. There is some talk of damage to the liners - but it seems to be fairly minimal. This hat has the embroidered last drop liner. Does anyone have any thoughts on giving this a naptha bath? Should I remove the liner first? The liner is pretty yellowed, it would be great to get it cleaned up some as well, but aside from being dirty everything is intact and in good shape.

For my part, if the liner is stitched in, I'd leave it, just for posterity. The OxyClean is a good idea if you take it out, but it's doubtful the yellow will go away. That's a chemical reaction, I think, not "dirt."

Since you have an embroidered liner, you should be OK. I've accidentally washed out some silk-screened ones, though.

Hurricane Jack · Aug 30, 2019

J Williams said:
I'm thinking of trying this on a recently acquired OR that's in need of a good cleaning so I thought I would revive this thread after reading through it. There is some talk of damage to the liners - but it seems to be fairly minimal. This hat has the embroidered last drop liner. Does anyone have any thoughts on giving this a naptha bath? Should I remove the liner first? The liner is pretty yellowed, it would be great to get it cleaned up some as well, but aside from being dirty everything is intact and in good shape.

Justin, I don't know what you can buy in Canada but if it is real naphtha or white gasoline be very careful as it is highly flammable. If it is Coleman Camp fuel, then not so much. Use it out in the open & not in a structure or on a deck. I know you build custom furniture so don't do it in your shop.

J Williams · Aug 30, 2019

Thanks for the Input everyone. I plan on conditioning the sweatband before and after, it’s in good shape.

I have a big back yard so that’s where it will be done, definitely not in the shop.

I spray lacquer and work with solvents a lot so I’m pretty equipped at dealing with them and have all the safety equipment.

@Hurricane Jack is one better than the other? I can get the painters naphtha through my industrial coatings supplier but I live in a lake / camping town so Coleman camp fuel is everywhere as well.

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belfastboy · Aug 30, 2019

deadlyhandsome said:
I say remove the liner and try some Oxyclean to clean it.

I’d also caution that if the sweatband has suffered dry rot, not always apparent, the solvent can cause the leather to delaminate, flake, and/or curl.

I have cleaned numerous hats with the naptha and I remove the liner and clean it separately with my wife's lingerie soap. Easy to reinstall with thin double sided tape. In all the hats cleaned the leather sweats have been in great condition and suffered no ill affect. However I am nervous about it so I turn out the sweat and don't immerse it into the naptha. The leather does get well splashed but I don't let it soak directly in it. I clean the crown first and then clean the brim by immersing it just to the sweat and rotating the brim. Not sure if that is the most effective way as it takes more time but hell I am retired so have lots of time. After the drying I apply a coat of lexol to the leather to re energize it.
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deadlyhandsome · Aug 30, 2019

Tukwila said:
Make sure your mix of oxiclean is diluted correctly. That stuff is strong and using a stronger blend can cause damage.

The white gas can dry out the sweatband, but I've had more problems trying to rehydrate the leather with water based leather conditioner.

I’m sure if the leather is in good condition all you need to do is restore its oils. However, I put a Stetson One-Hundred, where the sweatband looked fine but was actually dry rotted, into naphtha and it fell to pieces. The sweatband was damaged before the naphtha bath, but it looked good and was functional. After the bath it was destroyed and had to be replaced. The naphtha didn’t cause the damage, but it revealed existing damage and left the sweatband unusable. That was a bummer of a day.

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Just Daniel · Aug 30, 2019

I second Brent’s observation through a painful lesson learned with a Stetson 25.

Good luck!

deadlyhandsome said:
I’m sure if the leather is in good condition all you need to do is restore its oils. However, I put a Stetson One-Hundred, where the sweatband looked fine but was actually dry rotted, into naphtha and it fell to pieces. The sweatband was damaged before the naphtha bath, but it looked good and was functional. After the bath it was destroyed and had to be replaced. The naphtha didn’t cause the damage, but it revealed existing damage and left the sweatband unusable. That was a bummer of a day.

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Tukwila · Aug 30, 2019

deadlyhandsome said:
I’m sure if the leather is in good condition all you need to do is restore its oils. However, I put a Stetson One-Hundred, where the sweatband looked fine but was actually dry rotted, into naphtha and it fell to pieces. The sweatband was damaged before the naphtha bath, but it looked good and was functional. After the bath it was destroyed and had to be replaced. The naphtha didn’t cause the damage, but it revealed existing damage and left the sweatband unusable. That was a bummer of a day.

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Understood. I think this is the same situation I had with my royal Stetson sweat when I had problems with the water based leather conditioner.

If it's already damaged, a good cleaning with reveal even unseen problems.

If I know a sweat is toast and it needs help then I use a little antique leather dressing and let it work in from the top, finished side of the sweat band.

Tukwila · Aug 30, 2019

J Williams said:
Thanks for the Input everyone. I plan on conditioning the sweatband before and after, it’s in good shape.

I have a big back yard so that’s where it will be done, definitely not in the shop.

I spray lacquer and work with solvents a lot so I’m pretty equipped at dealing with them and have all the safety equipment.

@Hurricane Jack is one better than the other? I can get the painters naphtha through my industrial coatings supplier but I live in a lake / camping town so Coleman camp fuel is everywhere as well.

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I've used both Coleman and the Canadian produced Crown camp fuel with equally good results. Crown fuel was significantly lower in price.

AbbaDatDeHat · Aug 30, 2019

J Williams said:
I'm thinking of trying this on a recently acquired OR that's in need of a good cleaning so I thought I would revive this thread after reading through it. There is some talk of damage to the liners - but it seems to be fairly minimal. This hat has the embroidered last drop liner. Does anyone have any thoughts on giving this a naptha bath? Should I remove the liner first? The liner is pretty yellowed, it would be great to get it cleaned up some as well, but aside from being dirty everything is intact and in good shape.

J Williams:
I’ll chime in on this one.
I lamented these same concerns as you are. I was uncomfortable with leaving liners in with a gas bath. For good reason i will say. That’s another story.
Oxy-clean scares me having used it in laundry. It seemed harsh on things. (Diluted may be diff but still??).
So....researched and found stellar, swear by references from professional antique quilt/clothing folks who deal with “yellowed” fragile antique quilts, lace, etc.
They swore by this product, Retro Clean.
It’s pricey, (about $15 for 16oz powder that will last years), so are my hats.
So i tried it on a destroyed, fragile, falling apart liner af a extremely old Borsalino that was hopeless and some others.
Pics...the frail Borsa on the right was lots yellower than the unwashed center Stetson. The embroirdered Dobbs Rainbow on the left was about like the Stetson.
Pics show the diff. The Borsa did not disintegrate any more than before the soak and is unbelievably lighter than it was. The Dobbs bled none, lost no coloring and is so much nicer.
The Retro Clean is hard to find. Google it and read for yourself. It can be bought online.
In general, i will never use another product to clean frail yellowed liners. The Borsa save convinced me.
Good luck....ymmv.
Bowen
Ps: all statements referenced age yellowing. I did not try on stained or liners with foxing. It worked well on gold crest Stetson liners too.

Hurricane Jack · Aug 30, 2019

J Williams said:
@Hurricane Jack is one better than the other? I can get the painters naphtha through my industrial coatings supplier but I live in a lake / camping town so Coleman camp fuel is everywhere as well.

They should both do the job. I'm not a Chemical Engineer but I do know camp fuel is not pure. It does have additives to retard it a bit & make it less combustible. Pure naphtha does not; not sure about Painters naphtha.

I have had success in cleaning dirt & some foxing from liners with straight dish soap. Dish soap is a degreaser. If you don't want to remove the liner then use the dish soap to clean the liner (& any really bad spots on the felt) before submerging the hat in the naphtha bath. The bath will take care of the soap residue anyway.

Frunobulax · Aug 30, 2019

Hurricane Jack said:
They should both do the job. I'm not a Chemical Engineer but I do know camp fuel is not pure. It does have additives to retard it a bit & make it less combustible. Pure naphtha does not; not sure about Painters naphtha.

I have had success in cleaning dirt & some foxing from liners with straight dish soap. Dish soap is a degreaser. If you don't want to remove the liner then use the dish soap to clean the liner (& any really bad spots on the felt) before submerging the hat in the naphtha bath. The bath will take care of the soap residue anyway.

Ya got me wondering, Jack, so I looked into the MSDSs. Both have flash points below 0 deg F, both are described as Light Hydrotreated Distillate, have similar vapor pressures and a slight difference in specific gravity (0.69 vs 0.77). If Coleman is adding some sort of attenuator, it's not evident from the properties.

Either way, only use it near a bonfire while smoking a cigar while your kids play nearby with sparklers. That's my advice.

Hurricane Jack · Aug 30, 2019

Frunobulax said:
Ya got me wondering, Jack, so I looked into the MSDSs. Both have flash points below 0 deg F, both are described as Light Hydrotreated Distillate, have similar vapor pressures and a slight difference in specific gravity (0.69 vs 0.77). If Coleman is adding some sort of attenuator, it's not evident from the properties.

Either way, only use it near a bonfire while smoking a cigar while your kids play nearby with sparklers. That's my advice.

I'm pretty sure there are attenuators, whereas the old white gasoline & naphtha had none. Compare camp fuel to kerosene and/or diesel.

Frunobulax · Aug 30, 2019

Hurricane Jack said:
I'm pretty sure there are attenuators, whereas the old white gasoline & naphtha had none. Compare camp fuel to kerosene and/or diesel.

Kerosene has a flash point of 100 - 125 deg F. I looked up Tesoro naphtha and Coleman Camp Stove fuel. If there are additives, it is perhaps to cut down on smoke, maybe? Either way, they must be negligible. Both are listed as 100% Light Hydrotreated Distillate. The Coleman has a separate CAS number, likely because it's proprietary. The Tesoro is more detailed and goes into Benzene content, etc.

(shrugs)

Hurricane Jack · Aug 30, 2019

Frunobulax said:
Kerosene has a flash point of 100 - 125 deg F. I looked up Tesoro naphtha and Coleman Camp Stove fuel. If there are additives, it is perhaps to cut down on smoke, maybe? Either way, they must be negligible. Both are listed as 100% Light Hydrotreated Distillate. The Coleman has a separate CAS number, likely because it's proprietary. The Tesoro is more detailed and goes into Benzene content, etc.

(shrugs)

The only Tesoro I'm familiar with is this, & go beyond moderate use & bad things will happen.

Frunobulax · Aug 30, 2019

Hurricane Jack said:
The only Tesoro I'm familiar with is this, & go beyond moderate use & bad things will happen.

View attachment 182615

HAHA. It may be equally flammable, too.

I've never checked my Coleman fuel for a worm, though.

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