Paul's Hat Works

Laurence · Sep 1, 2007

Is this company worth the money, what could the difference be between this hat and other custom made hats, that are $300.

fedoralover · Sep 1, 2007

I visited that shop 3 years ago and at that time as I recall, he was asking 1500 dollars for a pure beaver custom fedora and it did't even have an edge binding on the brim. I don't know what he's asking now, but I know that even if he cut his price in half you still wouldn't be getting anything that you can't get for $305.

fedoralover

Bebop · Sep 1, 2007

If it's the Paul's Hat Works on Geary in S.F., I live close to the shop and have been there enough to know he is overpriced, does not have very good customer service and seems to enjoy putting down other hat makers. I do walk my dog past his shop and always have to check out the window inventory. They are nice hats but not anything special. I think he caters to rich people that don't want to do their homework when it comes to hats. They just want to be able to say they have the most expensive hat possible.

Sonoma Jack · Sep 1, 2007

Hi all,

I guess I've lurked long enough and am now ready to take the plunge and toss out a comment or two. I used to wear hats all the time back in college and for years afterward, but after awhile my hats went one way and my interest another (though my wife still has about 50 hats from the 30's, 40's and 50's). For whatever reason--good taste?--I've drifted back into the fedora world and discovered, yow, this site!

So...

Regarding Paul's, just to bring everyone up to date, yup his beaver fedoras are $1500 while his Panamas range up to--gasp--$30,000. I've taken a look at that pricey Panama and I have to say the straightness, uniformity and tightness of the weave is akin to machine woven linen. It's really quite breathtaking. You'll want to order two.

As for his fedoras, his hats have no edge bindings simply because he leaves it to the purchaser to specify the edge treatment. I am somewhat perplexed by the comment regarding Michael's customer service...I've not heard anything bad about it. I used to live on 24th off of Fulton and I've always found him to be very conversational and educational, and quite mild-mannered. Is $1500 expensive? Yeah. Overpriced? Depends on your values and pocketbook. I think nothing of paying $4 for a pint of microbrewed beer but I buy my t-shirts at Costco. So really, if you have the chance, drop by his store and make up your own mind. I personally really like his hats, though unless I win the lottery I don't think I'll be filling a closet with them. Heck, the guy has owned the store since 1980(?) so he must be doing something right.

Oh, if you do visit his shop, ask him to show you his head measuring device. The thing was built in the 1860's and looks like a...hmmm...I'm not sure how to describe it but the contraption fits over the top of your head and makes a scaled paper stencil of your head shape when a lever is flipped.

deanglen · Sep 1, 2007

Welcome to the Lounge, Sonoma Jack! Always glad to see someone come in from the shadows into the light of the Lounge. I'm sure we'd all like to know more about, and perhaps see what hats you've got. We love pictures and information. We love hats. Glad you do to. Be seeing you!

dean

Panamabob · Sep 1, 2007

Man, I'd love to see one of those $30,000 hats.

FedoraGent · Sep 1, 2007

Paul's...

Panamabob said:
Man, I'd love to see one of those $30,000 hats.

Bob,

I live in the same neighborhood and have been by there a couple of times. The prices are rather over inflated and at times the attitude just isn't worth going in. I'm convinced that buying a Panama or any Milan straw elsewhere would yield better quality and less of an inflated price. I don't know how he keeps his cost structure...or more importantly how he keeps the rent paid. It's not like he's Barron's Hats in Burbank selling to the entertainment business. Frankly, I just don't get it.

FG.

RBH · Sep 1, 2007

Panamabob said:
Man, I'd love to see one of those $30,000 hats.

I'm with you on that one Robert!

Oh by the way Sonoma, glad to have you join us!

Bebop · Sep 1, 2007

Panamabob said:
Man, I'd love to see one of those $30,000 hats.

Yeah, I would love to hear the sales pitch that goes into selling a $30,000 hat and then meet the genius that falls for it. Actually, I would also like to meet the guy that shells out $1500 for a hat. I wonder who ends up with the $30,000?

I wonder??

Laurence · Sep 1, 2007

My question was not meant to be personal

Please, my question was not posted to be a question about the owners personality, I would like to know if the felt is different, or anything else. Does the hat fit better, what does make the hat different. When people pay $1500, there has to be a difference, what is it.

1911 Man · Sep 1, 2007

When it comes to the actual felt, there can't be that much of a difference. I've learned a little about felt hats over the last few years from the hat makers over at indygear.com. They will tell you all felt for hats comes from one or another of only a very limited number of suppliers (I think 8 in the whole world). Some have better quality than the others, but Steve Delk and Marc Kitter of the Adventurebilt hat company will tell you, beaver felt is beaver felt. You can get the same quality in a beaver felt hat for much better prices elsewhere.

As a side note, I know absolutely nothing about Panama hats, and can make no comment about quality versus cost on those. But personally I would rather buy a brand new Harley Davidson motorcycle for that kind of dough. Plus I would still have enough cash left over for a nice new suit, tailored shirt, new tie, new cordovan leather shoes, and an evening at a nice restaurant with my beautiful wife. But maybe my priorites are different than other people's

hsitz · Sep 1, 2007

Laurence said:
When people pay $1500, there has to be a difference, what is it.

". . . has to be a difference . . . "? You mean, other than the fact that it costs five times more than some other equivalent hat? While it's possible there might be another difference, there's no reason to think there _has_ to be one.

I remember twenty plus years ago when I graduated from college, first job I had was working at a small wine shop in downtown Chicago. One of the first things you have to do when selling wine (or anything, really) is size up the purchaser. There were times when I didn't do this well enough. I would show someone a fine bottle of wine for, say $15. Several times when I did that people just said, "I was looking for something more expensive." Of course, they were also looking, hopefully, for something better. The problem is, while there is a correlation between price and quality, that correlation is very rough. The best $15 bottles were better than many of the bottles costing two or three times as much.

I would say that it's very likely that the main difference between a $1,500 hat and a $300 hat is that the more expensive one is purchased by someone who values money differently than the average person. That is, it's more likely to be purchased by someone who makes a lot of money and enjoys spending it. $1,500 to me is a large amount. $1,500 to a multimillionaire subjectively represents a much smaller amount.

I would also add that when you get into the stratosphere where prices are based primarily on status rather than on the quality of materials or time invested in making an item, the correlation between increasing price and increasing quality deteriorates.

J.T.Marcus · Sep 1, 2007

1911 Man said:
When it comes to the actual felt, there can't be that much of a difference. I've learned a little about felt hats over the last few years from the hat makers over at indygear.com. They will tell you all felt for hats comes from one or another of only a very limited number of suppliers (I think 8 in the whole world). Some have better quality than the others, but Steve Delk and Marc Kitter of the Adventurebilt hat company will tell you, beaver felt is beaver felt. You can get the same quality in a beaver felt hat for much better prices elsewhere.

As a side note, I know absolutely nothing about Panama hats, and can make no comment about quality versus cost on those. But personally I would rather buy a brand new Harley Davidson motorcycle for that kind of dough. Plus I would still have enough cash left over for a nice new suit, tailored shirt, new tie, new cordovan leather shoes, and an evening at a nice restaurant with my beautiful wife. But maybe my priorites are different than other people's

If you're going to wear that outfit and take your beautiful wife to a nice restaurant, and do it all on a Harley, your priorities are different. I like your style!

feltfan · Sep 1, 2007

Laurence said:
Please, my question was not posted to be a question about the owners personality, I would like to know if the felt is different, or anything else. Does the hat fit better, what does make the hat different. When people pay $1500, there has to be a difference, what is it.

When you are buying a computer or a piece of stereo equipment,
you can test certain aspects of the product. You know something
about the manufacturer and their reputation. You get a warrantee.

When you are buying a hand made hat these days, you don't always
get the answers to your questions. There is a certain amount of
secrecy or BS. Some hatters are famous for it, some are straight dealers.

Regarding the discussion of Michael's customer service, I bought a
hat from him many years ago, in the early 90s. At the time he had
ceased to clean and block hats purchased elsewhere. Since that time
he has refused to clean and block my hat. This was before he was
making felt hats, and the hat I bought was a Biltmore. I now know that
his price was around twice what I would have paid elsewhere for the
same hat. I don't know if he sells Biltmores anymore.

I think he benefits from the lack of "classy", old fashioned hat shops.
I think he banks on the number of people in SF and tourists who just
have too much money to spend. He doesn't have to sell all that many
$10,000 hats in a year.

I recommend visiting the shop. He has a lot of cool old equipment.
He can tell you about his frustration trying to learn about hat making
from tight-lipped old hat makers.

But as others have pointed out, this guy must be buying his felt from
the same people everyone else buys from and I doubt he has sold/made
all that many, given the pricing. I haven't held one of his felt hats in
my hands for at least a decade, but I don't recall anything terribly special
about them.

Don't forget to ask him how much money the weaver got when you
look at his $30,000 panamas.

AlanC · Sep 1, 2007

FYI, there was a recent discussion on Paul's that might be worth taking a look at that includes a link to some pictures.

Fast · Sep 2, 2007

Isn't there a fellow selling hats at fairly reasonable prices down my SFSU? there used to be. I went by paul's a bunch of times while passing through town and nobody was ever there. I figure he's doing something well enough to not ever want to see me and quit trying.

Carpe Diem
Fast

FedoraGent · Sep 2, 2007

Fast said:
Isn't there a fellow selling hats at fairly reasonable prices down my SFSU? there used to be. I went by paul's a bunch of times while passing through town and nobody was ever there. I figure he's doing something well enough to not ever want to see me and quit trying.

Carpe Diem
Fast

According to Lady Day, there is a place over by SFSU in the Sunset. I've never been there, but she says it's run by an old couple. Try PMing her and see what she says.

FG.

fedoralover · Sep 2, 2007

So in answer to the original question. The difference is some people want to be able to say "I paid $1500 for this hat!!".
As opposed to probably most of us here who like to be able to say "I got this hat for $305 that other people charge $1500 for!!"

fedoralover

Sonoma Jack · Sep 3, 2007

Laurence said:
Please, my question was not posted to be a question about the owners personality, I would like to know if the felt is different, or anything else. Does the hat fit better, what does make the hat different. When people pay $1500, there has to be a difference, what is it.

Perhaps this article might shed some light on the question of cost and felt quality. Although the article focuses on cowboy hats, the import of the article--price, quality, and scarcity of beaver felt--would apply to fedoras as well:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,172417,00.html

As you've no doubt discovered from the replies to your initial query, price vs. value can be very subjective. I would again urge you to drop by Paul's and answer for yourself whether his hats are for you. Interestingly, when I was last in there Paul was waiting for a customer to pick up a custom 100% beaver cowboy hat. It was an incredible hat and like his fedoras was priced at $1500. In the world of cowboy hats, that's not a lot of money. The Serratelli 1000X Entre III goes for nearly $3900!

AlanC · Sep 3, 2007

The article prompts the question, as discussed in a recent thread, of why hatters aren't looking more to nutria as a source of pelts. If there's a fur shortage, that would seem to be an obvious option. Why aren't they pursuing it?

Clearly Paul's hats are 'worth' $1500 to enough people to allow him to keep producing them. As I couldn't afford $1500 for a hat regardless of quality, it's a moot point for me. I'll try to get by with the Art Fawcett's, Steve Delk's and Panama Bob's of the world.

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