What's wrong with these people?

BegintheBeguine · Oct 26, 2007

As a parent, obedient child, and angry person

Miss Neecerie said:
Considering -where- it is....a lot of the parents are working farm labor jobs....and are thus -not- around....

unfortunatly while providing for the family, they have no time to actually -be- there....don't assume that its they dont care.....its just that they dont manage to offer guidance AND pay the bills.

6 other posts ask where are the parents, so whatever they are doing, they obviously need to see the priority is with the children they have managed to take some time out of their busy lives to produce and bring into the world.

Miss Neecerie · Oct 26, 2007

BegintheBeguine said:
6 other posts ask where are the parents, so whatever they are doing, they obviously need to see the priority is with the children they have managed to take some time out of their busy lives to produce and bring into the world.

Please note: I merely suggested that they were perhaps not on drugs or off fooling around.

dakotanorth · Oct 26, 2007

Kids and "Who's to Blame"

It all comes down to one word:
Accountability.
Yes I'm willing to believe the kids come from a home full of guns, maybe they play violent video games, maybe they're bored, maybe they tried a little weed, but bottom line, anyone over, say, 12 years old, KNOWS that leaving the house with a lethal weapon and tracking down innocent animals is a DECISION. They chose to go find animals and kill them for no practical reason. (Practical meaning "I needed the meat" or "I wanted to make a fur coat" etc).
Society, toys, drugs, etc play a FACTOR, but in the end it was a decision, a CHOICE.
If you want America to become a better place, hold people accountable for everything they do.

Jp

scotrace · Oct 26, 2007

Did I get from the article that most were people (may actually not be kids at all) driving from urban areas out to the countryside to do this?

zaika · Oct 26, 2007

scotrace said:
Did I get from the article that most were people (may actually not be kids at all) driving from urban areas out to the countryside to do this?

that's certainly what it sounded like to me.

Feraud · Oct 26, 2007

I generally find the actions of the hand wringing adults worse than those of the children.

Slightly off topic but relevant..
As we discussed in another thread. There are videos of people doing horrible things to their fellow man. Can parents, school/justice systems be this baffled as to taking firm action?

My neighbor is a third grade public school teacher in NYC. If you could hear the stories of how the Board of Ed ties the hands of the teachers, it would truly shock you. There are mentally unstable (some violent) 8 yr. old children slipping through the cracks and being allowed to attend class. The teachers spends most of their class time trying to corral the distractions. My neighbor has a class of 30 children and on the last parent/teacher meeting two parents showed up.
This is why I gladly pay to send my son to a private school. With the amount of tuition I pay you can be sure he is not going to screw around in class and no one who does will be tolerated.

LizzieMaine · Oct 26, 2007

I'm all for accountability -- but still, the question has to be asked: why would anyone, living in what we claim to be such an Age of Enlightenment, *choose* to partake in such an activity? We're constantly told how much more advanced today's society is over those barbarians of our not-too-distant past, how far we've moved beyond the cruelties of previous generations, but, really, *ARE WE AND HAVE WE?* Or have we just become so smug and self-righteous as a society that we can't see our own depradations?

It's easy to say these are just punk kids who need to be taken to the woodshed -- and I agree, they are and they do -- but that also makes it easy to let society off the hook. Which, I think, we shouldn't be willing to do.

lyburnum · Oct 26, 2007

Yet another horrific act by youths, this time in the UK:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tees/7063366.stm

A man who urinated on a woman as she lay dying and shouted "this is YouTube material" has been sentenced to three years in prison.

RondoHatton · Oct 26, 2007

Feraud said:
...My neighbor is a third grade public school teacher in NYC. If you could hear the stories of how the Board of Ed ties the hands of the teachers, it would truly shock you..

When Rondo went to public school in Los Angeles, it was his teachers who were the mentally unstable ones. Either just out of, or just before entering institutions. I witnessed teachers hurl those huge teacher's edition textbooks at student's heads, a math teacher "b**** slap" the girl next to me, for asking an algebra question, a student knocked down for wearing a hat (yes, a "hippie" wearing an old beater fedora, not a cap on backwards), a handful of pills displayed by a music teacher who gulped them before taking a nap in the practice room, and myself been slugged and kicked down stairs from behind by a science teacher who decided it was I (and it was not) who made some smart aleck remark in class. These pedagogs would be in jail had they done that today; Rondo just had to take it.

dakotanorth · Oct 26, 2007

LizzieMaine said:
I'm all for accountability -- but still, the question has to be asked: why would anyone, living in what we claim to be such an Age of Enlightenment, *choose* to partake in such an activity? We're constantly told how much more advanced today's society is over those barbarians of our not-too-distant past, how far we've moved beyond the cruelties of previous generations, but, really, *ARE WE AND HAVE WE?* Or have we just become so smug and self-righteous as a society that we can't see our own depradations?

It's easy to say these are just punk kids who need to be taken to the woodshed -- and I agree, they are and they do -- but that also makes it easy to let society off the hook. Which, I think, we shouldn't be willing to do.

Age of Enlightenment? When was this declared?

We live in an age where violence is integrated into almost everything, kindness isn't "cool", pop culture is everything, people aren't aware of how much they don't know so they assume they know everything, and the whole definition of "Man" and "Woman" are becoming extremely polarized and objectified.
Could someone enlighten me on how we are enlightened? [huh] [huh] [huh]

You struck the right chord though- we are TOLD we are superior. Ignorance about the rest of the world keeps people from debating that statement or even, dare I say, THINKING about it.

epr25 · Oct 26, 2007

Well like everyone else this made me feel sick. I actually want to cry. Not only for animals but for all of us too. What's happening? I think that animal violence needs to carry a much high penilty thn it does. Because after them it's us.

thunderw21 · Oct 26, 2007

In his book On Killing, Lt. Col. Dave Grossman talks about the lack of respect for death nowadays, specifically in the younger generation.

He states that in the past, ever since the beginning of time, man has had to kill his own food. People cared for the sick and dying at home and even displayed the dead in their parlors. Death was a much too common event back then and it was respected. They didn't kill for fun, they killed (animals) to survive.

Today, with our advanced medicine and food production system people are living longer and we can get our food already prepared. Death and 'responsible' killing (for food and such) is a rarity nowadays. As a result, people (youth mainly) 'need' violence, demand it. To meet this demand companies create and sell violent movies, video games, TV and music. In this way the violent media is not what creates violence in people but rather it is a symptom of a demand for violence.

I agree with this view, though there are other factors as well.

Rooster · Oct 26, 2007

Of course, this is just conjecture, but I think there are a couple of factors involved. Like the one boy who came from a house with 25 guns. I understand having a gun for protection in your house, or a hunting rifle or two, but 25??? Why would you need 25 guns unless you were a collector, who I think would have them under lock and key somewere?

I have well over 100+ guns, some are locked up because of their value , some are not. Some handguns are loaded and in quick reach. Many rifles are leaning in corners.
I raised four children in this atmosphere. None of them went out and shot up farm animals. They turned out to be decent people and parents, the youngest is pursuing a law degree. Large numbers of guns in a household do not bad children make.
It's all about how you raise your children and the example you set. If you provide no boundaries or rules, how do you expect a child to live by any?[huh]

Rooster · Oct 26, 2007

epr25 said:
Well like everyone else this made me feel sick. I actually want to cry. Not only for animals but for all of us too. What's happening? I think that animal violence needs to carry a much high penilty thn it does. Because after them it's us.

We don't need to legislate higher penalties, we need to let/make fathers do their job and knock these boys heads together. Things like this rarely happened in "The good ol' days" as there were fathers around that made the penalties so severe young men didn't dare cross the line. And , if there wasn't a responsible father around, any man that was at hand would deal out discipline. (don't ask me how I know

)
I don't feel sorry for the animals, they can't reason and they don't have emotion, they don't have the slightest idea what happened to them or why they felt pain. It's the owners of these animals I feel sorry for. Those animals are most likely worth a pile of cash and some families are going to be hurt financially by these little pukes actions in killing their property.

LadyStardust · Oct 26, 2007

Rooster said:
I got the cure. Those boys need a trip behind the wood shed for an introduction to a stiff leather belt against their backside. The threat of such punishment kept me out of trouble in my youth.
I once had a bunch of teenage boys steal my step daughters baby kittens and then drop them one by one off an interstate overpass to watch them bounce off of car windshields...... sick little bastards.:rage: Their parents did make them come apologize after getting caught because they were bragging about it at school.

:rage:

Am I to understand these....urchins..came away from your home unscathed?You must have enormous self-discipline. I know that is a quality I would lack in such a situation.
------------------------------
Very, very few things make me as mad or madder than senseless cruelty to animals. I can be offered all explanations/excuses in the world, and still the question "WHY?!" never seems to be adequately answered.

nyx · Oct 26, 2007

Rooster said:
I have well over 100+ guns, some are locked up because of their value , some are not. Some handguns are loaded and in quick reach. Many rifles are leaning in corners.
I raised four children in this atmosphere. None of them went out and shot up farm animals nor did they piss on dying people. They turned out to be decent people and parents, the youngest is pursuing a law degree. Large numbers of guns in a household do not bad children make.
It's all about how you raise your children and the example you set. If you provide no boundaries or rules, how do you expect a child to live by any?[huh]

Obviously the number of guns isn't the only factor, as I mentioned. A lot of it has to do with how the children were raised. However, I do have to ask, just for my own curiosity--Other than the collector items, why do you have so many guns? I'm not trying to be disrespectful in any way--I really am just curious. My mother has one handgun that she keeps for protection, but we've never had any others in our house, so I'm not too familiar with what else they would be used for.

Viola · Oct 26, 2007

I'd like to at some point own six or seven guns. I don't now purely due to financial woes.

I don't think that makes me more dangerous than someone with one, as I only have two hands anyhow. And I don't think owning a gun makes you necessarily more dangerous than somebody else who just has more malice in their heart. (Some of these animal-cruelty cases are totally firearm-free, and so, unfortunately, are some crimes these psychos go on to do to other people.)

For me, it'd be 1 for hunting, 4 for Cowboy Action Shooting (target plinking with 2 revolvers, 1 pump or lever action pistol caliber rifle, and 1 shotgun) and 1 or 2 for defense.

zaika · Oct 26, 2007

Rooster said:
I have well over 100+ guns, some are locked up because of their value , some are not. Some handguns are loaded and in quick reach. Many rifles are leaning in corners.
I raised four children in this atmosphere. None of them went out and shot up farm animals nor did they piss on dying people. They turned out to be decent people and parents, the youngest is pursuing a law degree. Large numbers of guns in a household do not bad children make.
It's all about how you raise your children and the example you set. If you provide no boundaries or rules, how do you expect a child to live by any?[huh]

:eusa_clap
exactly. i was brought up by a stepfather who collects and shoots mostly rifles, so guns were a big part of my childhood. he made it very clear that the ONLY time we were to handle a gun was in his presence. he taught us, by example and by word, gun safety and respect. when we went out target shooting he wouldn't hesitate to get on our backs if the muzzle of a gun pointed anywhere but the ground or the target. to this day i respect guns and the responsible owners of guns, even though i do not want or need one myself. both my brother and i have never even pointed a gun at a living thing for fun or out of boredom.

Decodence · Oct 26, 2007

I blame it on the new society of daycare dumping parents, latchkey children, high divorce rates resulting in lack of decent rolemodels, and both parents working to afford unnecessary luxuries instead of RAISING THEIR CHILDREN. Why spend time playing with your child and teaching them proper behavior when you can just set them in front of a boob tube?

Classics · Oct 26, 2007

From reading the article, it doesn't sound like bored kids but rather someone mentally ill. The article stated that small bullets were used to prolong pain and suffering; killing animals to watch them suffer is a classic symptom of very serious psychoses.

Edited to add:
That is to say, I'm not sure we can pin this on the parents. Certainly, there's a lot wrong with kids nowadays (but as a near-kid nowadays, there's a lot right with us too!), but I don't think this is it. I'm thinking more about apathy and illiteracy and a lack of respect for anything but money.

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