Why certain cities.

So, I was reading about the latest SF shindig and missing the city. We had a great time when I lived there and it seems they are still up to it.

But back in Seattle, there isn't much going down. Never was. Sure, when swing was big, there were some swing nights and there still are dancers, but it isn't the same.

It got me wondering. Why certain cities?

LA is kind of a no brainer. The town is built on style and image and old hollywood. SO it is no surprise that they would have vintage afficianados.

But San Francisco, in my opinion, seems to have even more of a scene. There is the art deco society that attracts an older as well as younger crowd, many of whom are very into art deco in general, antiques, twenties music etc. Then there is the costumers guild who do all kinds of dress up, then I knew a crowd that were into renaissance fair, dickins fair, and swing. I think they mostly came in through Lee Press on and their love of dressing up. the dance scene there is big, and still a good core of dancers who dress up. They had a heavy influence from the hollywood dancers and their move back to original style. Then there is a large crowd of wwII reenactors, some of whom are at the core of the non dancing, non deco society, Verdi room crowd if that is enough of a niche to classify.

In short, there are tons of vintage fans there. I guess if you ahve some, you will attract more. But I am convinced there is a different type of person there than you will find in Seattle.

Maybe Portland has a certain something that attracts some people that atre drawn to old times and quirkyness. LA certainly ahs their people who love to play dress up. I don't know much about NY, but I imagine there, with the existance of plenty of vintage jazz, fashion industry, sense of style and quirkyness, as well as the fact that there are so many people there that there are bound to be some peole into everything.

But why some cities? Is it the ge and sense of history maybe?

All I know is Seattle is as big as San Francisco, but they couldn't be more different in that regard. I sometimes feel like I am living in a wasteland. But I know Seattle could never be San Francisco. Even if I was not nto vintage, there is a certain kind of person there you do not find in Seattle. Certain kinds of bars and restaurants and overall feel. I am sure some other cities are the same.

Thoughts.

Interesting thread. I have nothing to add at this time, however....

NY - the meaningful, status-y, influential part of it anyway - is too focused on trends and making money. Subcultures are for socially oppressed groups or bores who spit when they talk. Seriousness is valued above all, and people who dress up and don't get paid for it aren't serious.

As for SF, you can probably credit the general acceptance of eccentricity. It seems to be one of the few places where the nonconformists aren't just another kind of conformists.

Boston is older then almost any other city in the country, but it doesn't have much of a Vintage Scene that I know of. (If I'm wrong, let me know...)

On the East Coast, I see folks like us on rare occasion. There's something oppressive and Anti-Retro in some spots. There are theaters that show the classics and they have a steady and devoted audience.

When it come to S.F. vs. Seattle in that regard, architecture and the fact that it does not change much may have something to do with it. S.F. seems to never tear down buildings and put up new boxy things. They renovate as much as possible. I don't know if Seattle does that as much as S.F. I am sure that attracts a vintage crowd. Just a wild, uneducated guess since I live in S.F. and have only visited Seattle . Generally speaking, it also seems that people move to S.F. because they love the city and it's history therefore more likely to get into the vintage aspect, and move to Seattle because of work. Interesting post. :eusa_clap

That's really interesting. I guess since I've been living in California for all of my adolescent and adult life, I've really taken the place for granted.

Fun fact, Lee Press-on painted our house when I was 10.

This just struck me, how many Vintage/Classic movies take place in San Fran?

Which reminds me, I'm over-due on my Maltese Falcon review.

Renderking Fisk said:

On the East Coast, I see folks like us on rare occasion. There's something oppressive and Anti-Retro in some spots.

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Go with that, hmm...How? Why, do you think?

In NY anyway, daily life is something of a forced march. It's what you do to prove yourself worthy of the city. Taking time out for style or civility is a little bit of a slap in the face to all the tough people. You can spend money or throw parties, but the rat race and its ethos are sacred.

Bebop said:

When it come to S.F. vs. Seattle in that regard, architecture and the fact that it does not change much may have something to do with it. S.F. seems to never tear down buildings and put up new boxy things. They renovate as much as possible. I don't know if Seattle does that as much as S.F. I am sure that attracts a vintage crowd. Just a wild, uneducated guess since I live in S.F. and have only visited Seattle . Generally speaking, it also seems that people move to S.F. because they love the city and it's history therefore more likely to get into the vintage aspect, and move to Seattle because of work. Interesting post. :eusa_clap

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I think you hit one major point. SF attracts an eclectic crowd since it's origins. And being the west ahs always been accepting and anything goes.

Charlie Chaplin and others established their first film studios in the bay area by the way.

Also, your poing about why people come here is right on. People in the NW come here for jobs in tech, or to be around the outdoors. People in Sf come there to be in a city with history and style, and also to be around other diverse people.

Another factor might be the history of Italian immigrants. WHile not enough, it seems to make a difference in SF. Much of the old atmosphere is centered in the old Italian restaurants and bars and neighborhoods. Also, the Latinos in the seventies and eighties have always kept a certain vintage flavor. That is Roberto's background nad he is an grandfather of the scene. ALso, arguably, the SF scene can be directly attributed to the Estrella brothers from Peteluma, along with their friends the Keppler (Irish) brothers also from Petaluma.

One of the Estrellas went to LA, one to NY and two stayed. While I wouldn't say they exported it, they certainly fit right in. That was about fifteen years ago. Interesting story about how seminal these two groups of brothers were. They wre the first to start dressing "nice" amongst the rockabilly punk scene.

Of course, Seattle has a thriving rockabilly scene, but while some of the girls can dress, it is strictly t shirts and jeans for the guys, although there are a few who will wear some western gear and such.

Whereas Seattle has a scandanavian history which means standing out or being expresive are not supported.

But Surely NY has a bit of a scene. It used to.

While Seattle had some vintage people back when it was a trend, they just weren't the same as the LA, NY, or SF people.



Or maybe it is the ocean air.

reetpleat said:

while some of the girls can dress [in Seattle], it is strictly t shirts and jeans for the guys

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I noticed the same kind of deal in Vancouver. Not vintage-oriented (AFAIK, vintage anything is irrelevant in Vancouver), but just in general. Women on a date can look spruced, elegant and hot. For men, tho, it seems to be strictly off limits. Even a dress shirt and jeans is pushing it a little in V-town.

Interesting that such a liberal and laid-back city is so conservative as regards men's dress. I think maybe it's the green thing, which is very influential there: a man has to be rugged and outdoorsy, a woman not so much.

reetpleat said:

But Surely NY has a bit of a scene. It used to.

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New York City has a decent scene. It is scattered and not everyone is hardcore vintage but an eclectic group of people.
The Dances of Vice / Governor's Island events are a success at bringing people together for a good time.
The people who attend the events do not seem overly concerned about the goings on "above ground".

As noted from Tom Waits.
Underground
Rattle big black bones
in the danger zone
there's a rumblin' groan
down below
there's a big dark town
it's a place I've found
there's a world going on
Underground
they're alive, they're awake
while the rest of the world is asleep
below the mine shaft roads
it will all unfold
there's a world going on
Underground
all the roots hang down
swing from town to town
they are marching around
down under your boots
all the trucks unload
beyond the gopher holes
there's a world going on
Underground

This sort of reminds me of the recent thread of neighborhood bars and taverns.

Where I grew up in St. Louis there were zillions of campy, dark, unassumingly plains dens of iniquity. Yet in other cities I've been in some just aren't the same.

While I found them in Wyoming I didn't in Reno and etc.

Some towns just don't have "it." I felt Portland was like you seem to find Seattle in those respects.

Call it charm, soul or whatever I guess there's something in all the places that calls to certain people otherwise they'd be ghost towns.

But there are a lot of [huh] towns out there.

It may be you aren't looking in the right places.

Swing dance classes and gatherings abound at the Center, Nordstrom has many classic lines of clothing available, and Bernie Utz does a fine business in hats. There is an eclectic architecture to the city.

Perhaps not a San Francisco, but not devoid of style either.