Beaver 100% Hat Body

Fedora · Feb 1, 2004

I recall reading that hydrogen peroxide and some other chemical was used to replace the mercury when it was banned in the 40s. I don't know if this is still used today, or if it has been changed. Perhaps a superior chemical was found. Hard to get current info on felt making. This leads back to the beaver felt deal. It was discovered a long, long time ago that beaver fur in its natural state(uncarroted) would produce a strong, fine felt due to the structure of the fine fibers. Other underfurs available in that part of the world would make felt too, but was quite inferior to the beaver, unless it was treated with the mercury. Treated with the mercury, rabbit too would make a strong, fine felt. OF course as time went by, the beaver fur was treated as well because this would make it even stronger, denser, finer. Just some info I discovered awhile back after several hours of search online. I am afraid that the ancient art of feltmaking is slowly becoming extinct. Sure, folks still know how to make it, but with hats not being popular, and most felt being made by huge corporations with the bottom line superceding quality, the final result isn't always pretty. Do you realize that outside of Optimo there are few really custom hatters left? By that, I mean hatters that try to specify the type of felt produced for them. As the economics change and fewer hats are sold, we may be left with only vintage hats-a finite number. Fedora

Art Fawcett · Feb 2, 2004

please share with this old hardhead

You're on Fedora!!! As I get back into my research periodically, I'll share with you and the group what I find. Here is what I am sure of. Beaver, the actual fur, is considered the best/easiest for the felt making process with it's barbed characterisitics, however, we then have to consider what makes the "best" hat. This is where I split hares ( pardon the pun) with you. And, by the way, we really ARE splitting hairs here. I am going to have to re-find the research, but the most expensive hat that Stetson ever offered ( not felt body) was the "Clear Nutria". Even by using your own logic, wouldn't this mean a more expensive process, by using more expensive belly fur, and better finishing? Again, I'm splitting hairs here, but doesn't this make sense? If it does, then your theory about pure beaver being best has a problem. If it was not the top priced hat produced, why not? This actually can be fun in finding the answers, hardhead or not.LOL

Art Fawcett · Feb 3, 2004

WOW...in the time it took to writye my last post we have 10 more!!! Fedora, if it is in the Stetson book that the highest priced hat ever by Stetson was a 15K beaver, then I stand corrected. What was the highest mass produced hat fedora?

Fedora · Feb 3, 2004

Hey Art, this book lists the Clear Nutria and the Premier line as the highest quality "for sale" hats. Of course, whether this was indicative of a particular period in the Stetson history, I am not sure. And no mention is made of what blend the Premier line was. I may have to ask for someone to pass the hot sauce. Of course, that same book made note of the 15k hat as the most expensive ever made by Stetson, and like I said earlier, it was pure beaver. I have a notion, unproven, that since Nutria was a very high quality felt, being an aquatic animal like the beaver, it was cheaper to buy due to the fact that these animals could be farmed like mink and chinchilla. Beaver, on the other hand seems to be a free spirit, and you can't economically farm them. So, it may have been an availability/price factor as well. This is conjecture of course. I look forward to any info you run across in the future. Did you get the link that I sent you? regards, Fedora

Art Fawcett · Feb 4, 2004

Did you get the link that I sent you? regards, Fedora

No I didn't fedora, can you either post it here or try again?

jpdesign · Feb 4, 2004

Nutria was so expensive for one reason, and it is the same as sable and mink today, it is the rarety. If stetson wanted to make a nutria hat today Luisiana would be happy to let them com down and wipe out the nutria population there. The are over run. Nutria used to have to come from one place, Argentina. It was the importing that cost so much because they were a pest there too, and it was also exotic. Nutria have taken such a strong hold in Luisian that cops are driving through towns at night spotlighting and shooting them. Other wildlife is deing off because the nutria are taking over. Stetson could get as many at they wanted very cheaply, but it isn't exotic anymore. The top hat sold now is a 1,000 x beaver and chinchila blend. There are also sable and mink blends. But they are just a rarity, that is where the cost comes from. It's an artificial rarity because RHE(the parent compan of Stetson, Resistol, Charly one horse, and Bradford) want it to be. They controll two of the three felting plants in the U.S.

Matt Deckard · Feb 4, 2004

That is good to know JP and it is nice to see you around these parts.

havershaw · Feb 5, 2004

I actually saw the cops in Louisiana doing the spotlight and shoothing thing on Insomniac one night.

jrh · Mar 14, 2004

Mercury

deleted

Andykev · Mar 15, 2004

I do have to admit to FEDORA

He is ablsoutely right on one thing and I have not considered this (I drink nights and oops Im on this nights too...hahahah)

Fedora is correct- and I believe his focus is on an "adventurer hat" or one for the outdoors. In that case, no substitute for BEAVER. Maybe a blend with some Nutria.

I- on the other hand, am a city boy, and think in terms of the 1940 movies shot in LA and SF....so I am a DRESS HAT. For those, hare and beaver , or other blends.

NO I don't think my Optimo would water a horse to the last drop. Fedora wins this one.

hatman · Mar 15, 2004

Ok, I don't know too much about which is better pure beaver or a blend, but I am wanting to make a hat for myself and I'm fairly sure that 100% pure beaver is what they used way back when.
So where can someone purchase a beaver hat body?? Any help is appreciated. thanks,
hatman

Art Fawcett · Mar 15, 2004

Hatman, Winchester in Tennnessee is the only one i know of offering pure beaver, but there are more that I haven't done business with so please don't take that as gospel. JPDesign or gladhatter can probably be more help. Good luck

Michaelson · Mar 15, 2004

Where is the 'Winchester' co. LOCATED in Tennessee, if I may ask? Regards. Michaelson

Art Fawcett · Mar 15, 2004

I'll have to get back to you Michaelson. the beaver body that Andy pictured for the lounge came from Winchester, but I didn't buy it, a friend did and sent it to me. I'll call tonight to get the correct info.

Michaelson · Mar 15, 2004

I'd appreciate that, Art. I live 7 miles from Winchester, TN. There is a 'hat' company there, per se, but they state they make ball caps, so I can't believe it's them, but who KNOWS what folks make behind closed factory doors? Especially since they don't sell to the public, so there's nothing to go by. Regards. Michaelson

Art Fawcett · Mar 16, 2004

Michaelson,
I couldn't reach my friend but in thumbing through my notes I found this.
Winchester Hat. Co., Tennessee, 931-967-0686 and the name "Sue". Just my scribbling, but there it is!! I still don't know what town it's in but the phone # should do it.

BD Jones · Mar 16, 2004

I belive this is the place:

Winchester Hat Corp
725 David Crockette Hwy
Winchester
TN 37398

I did a Google search and found it. Hope this helps.

Art Fawcett · Mar 16, 2004

Thanks BD..now I have it also!!

jrh · Mar 16, 2004

I am certainly not a hatter or an expert. The master hatters making me hats generally say pure beaver is better then a blend with rabbit or hare. Having done some research on the historic hat industry I found this to be common belief.

Blends with more exoitc furs such as mink are a different story. I know Milton Johnson of Montecisti Custom Hats offers some such blends...but they are very pricey.

I'd talk to the hatter you trust... reveiw your finances and needs and decide from an educated position.

I have done that and get felt fur hats in 100% beaver from Rand hats. Milton offers different grades of 100% beaver, the better being too over the top for me. A fine beaver hat, without fancy band, ought cost about $550 to 700.00, depending on trimmings.

jrh · Mar 16, 2004

The picture of the hat body Mr Z shows as pure beaver at the beginning of this thread ,appears to me not natural color beaver, but bleached. Natural beaver is a taupe color. I own one.

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