9mm or 45cal

Discussion in 'The Great Outdoors' started by SGT Rocket, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. Undertow

    Undertow My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,127
    Location:
    Des Moines, IA, US
    CCW weapons should fit your hand well, should be easily drawn and should effectively stop someone within one or two shots. While size isn't necessarily a concern, one must ensure that the firearm can be concealed properly.

    Home defense weapons should be easily accessible, easily loaded and easily lockable/unlockable. While they should posses effective stopping power, the fired rounds should not penetrate farther than the walls of your home, if at all possible.

    While these points seem similar, they can be worlds apart in practice. A 1911 with FMJ rounds is much different than a short barrel 12 gauge with pistol grip and buckshot. Each takes different ammo, each has different recoil, and while each can be effectively concealed, you can imagine how difficult it would be to pull a 12 gauge out from your waistband. ;) Likewise, a FMJ .45 is going to pass through your walls and possibly into the living space of your family.

    I realize the OP question is 9mm vs. .45cal. There has already been alot of talk about stopping power, lethality, familiarity, etc. Naturally, when you get guns nuts (myself included) in a room, just like hat nuts, there's going to be alot of great opinions and anectdotal evidence. Yet, just as you would discuss the correct hat for a situation, you would take similar considerations for the correct firearm.

    You were considering a CCW and to reiterate what many have already said, you need to feel these firearms in your hand. You should have ample experience shooting both rounds (9mm-.45). You should pick a weapon based on how well you're able to conceal, draw and fire it. If all is equal, and it rarely is, then you can start worrying about caliber. If you're comfortable firing .45 rounds with reasonable accuracy, then you need not hesitate carrying that round.

    Do not worry about the versatility of the firearm. Let that be a secondary bonus, rather than a primary concern (i.e. a weapon being effective with CCW and home defense).
     
  2. sheeplady

    sheeplady I'll Lock Up Bartender

    That's what my pistol instructor always said the best use for a pump was- the noise. lol But my mind is I'd rather not face an intruder.
     
    Dm101 likes this.
  3. I don't feel that a full sized 45 represents a lot of recoil. Learning to shoot and recover the sight picture for follow up shots helps.

    As for 9mm it's is easy to shoot for most and you may have the larger capacity at your fingertips. i liked 147 grain subsonic hollowpoints in my 9 a lot. I also liked when one of the shops got burp gun ammo that stuff was hot. i haven't shot plus-P in 9 that i can recall.


    Shot placement counts for much.
     
    Dm101 likes this.
  4. 1961MJS

    1961MJS My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,032
    Location:
    Norman Oklahoma
    Hi

    There was a story in the NRA Magazine years ago. A guy set up his stereo to play the sound of a pump shotgun being racked when his doors and windows opened. A burglar opened his window and died of a heart attack half in the window. His family sued because the guy had "set a trap". The guy was acquitted because the trap only played a sound.

    Makes you love an 870 and a model 12.
     
    Dm101 likes this.
  5. 1961MJS

    1961MJS My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,032
    Location:
    Norman Oklahoma


    Hi

    To expand on what Undertow has said. Before you buy a certain brand, caliber, and model of gun, if at all possible, shoot one first. When you look at Dirty Harry movies, he can (semi) successfully conceal a Model 29 Smith in .44 Magnum. He's a big tall guy, and is wearing a sport coat that is SIZED for it. Read the other posts in this forum, the only people wearing sports coats is, well us. You gotta conceal it, AND it has to be attached to you EVERYWHERE you go, including to the public toilet....

    Somewhere on here is an EXCELLENT post on concealed carry and the restroom. http://forums.1911forum.com/ It's both informative and just hilarious. Don't buy too heavy a gun cause you gotta carry it around, but don't buy a high powered, high recoiling pistol that's too small to shoot. You will want to shoot 500 plus rounds with a gun before you start carrying it. Practice a LOT. Rant mode off...
     
  6. warbird

    warbird One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,171
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    This is one of the most oft discussed and ridculous debates on most gun forums and in gun clubs. It goes back to discrimination most of the time and is simply not worthy of real strong opinion on one side or the other.

    The truth is with modern ammo there is little difference between the two ot three if you add .40 to the debate. All of these calibers and cartrdges have had great examples of success and failures. Stopping power comes from high caliber rifles, everythig else is suspect. Even the oft vaunted home defense manna, the 12 guage has had huge failures to stop intruders with shot and slugs. 223 and 7.62 has failed to stop assailants.

    There is no magical 'stopping power' ability to the 45. Period. It is some mythological marketing legend from days of yore. Can it be efective? You bet. So can a 9. I personally wouldn't carry less than a 9, and not more than a 45. Any gun is better than no gun, but the percentages with the 9,40 and 45 historically is about even. This is when comparing apples to apples. In other words comparing well placed shots to well placed shots. The odds of stopping an assailant with one shot is no better at all in real world situations is no better among the big 3. The best odds are at two well placed shots, then one. After that poorly placed shots are less effective and about even among all of the big 3. And those odds are not too good if your assailant is also armed.

    The secret to wining a gun fight in a life or death situation, is mindset, skill, tactics and lasty equipment. Notice the least important component is equipment. The most important is being ready and willing. Second being able. That only comes from proper training and ractice. Most shootings where a good guy was killed by a bad guy even when the good guy was armed, was a lack of willingness, followed by a lack of ability. In other words plinking on a gun range shoting down a lane doesn't cut it.

    You should be able to quickly and accurately place shots in the stopping triangle. Those have the best odds of stopping an assailant. No matter the cartridge. You have to practice with some form of conceived pressure. In a real word situation you will devolve to that level which you are proficient. YOU WILL NOT RISE TO THE OCCASION. This includes cops who have some of the greatest examples of gunfight failures. Many are undertrained and underpracticed. A majority of the examples of failures with these calibers has been in law enforcement situations and been from poorly placed shots. Though again all 3 have had failures even with well placed shots.

    Carry what you are comfortable with and can shoot well and will practice with. For me I like the 9 probably better than anything else. My 9 is light, I can shoot it very fast and very accurately. I can also shoot it cheaply. I have a $2k custom made combat 1911 and it is very accurate and very reliable. But I don't carry it much as I have less rounds and more weight. I prefer the 9 and 45 to the 40. The higher pressure of the 40 is simply not worth any additional real power advantage to me. I personally shoot the other 2 faster and more accurately. With any of the three I can shoot them faster and more accurately than 98% of the public can. I know Ican shoot as long as I keep at it. I also train my mind to be mentally prepared and practice constant stuational awareness. The first objective is to not make myself a target and to, if possible, get myself out of a situation without firing a shot. I carry what I am comfortable with, that's it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  7. Old Rogue

    Old Rogue Practically Family

    Messages:
    853
    Location:
    Eastern North Carolina
    As a couple of others have commented you can spend a lifetime reading the 9 vs. 45 debate on any number of gun sites (no pun intended). Personally, I have a Springfield XDm 9mm. It has proven to be extremely reliable. I've run over 2000 rounds down the pipe and only experienced one jam, and that was within the first few mags before the gun was properly broken in. I also like the fact that it has a 19 round magazine. I have a NC concealed carry permit and with a Crossbreed Supertuck holster I can even hide the weapon wearing a polo shirt with tail tucked in (if I slightly blouse the tail). That being said, this weapon is really not suited for concealed carry and I'm thinking of getting something like a Kel-Tek PF-9. It only packs 8 rounds, but I'll carry it a lot more since it's smaller and lighter and therefore easier to conceal and more comfortable to wear. My personal, unscientific opinion is that all things being equal a larger caliber is probably better, but I heartily agree that being able to afford more practice probably mitigates that advantage under most circumstances. That's the thought process I went through in deciding on a 9mm, but I certainly respect the opinions of the other folks on this thread who have made compelling arguments for the 45.
     
    Dm101 likes this.
  8. Atticus Finch

    Atticus Finch Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,713
    Location:
    Coastal North Carolina, USA
    Not to launch into a war story...but sometimes I just can't help myself.

    I once prosecuted a case where two biker thugs got into a loud argument at a local bar (Old Rogue, do you remember Buck's?). The owner (yes, Buck) pulled his baseball bat from behind the bar and forced them take their argument into the parking lot. Once there, both dorks produced guns and began shooting "at" each other from opposite sides of some poor customer's Ford Fiesta. Anound and around the car they danced, shooting holes into the car's hood, roof, dashboard and even tires. Finally, they both ran out of ammo...glared at each other for a moment...and then walked back inside. They were both totally unscathed.

    The place is no longer Buck's...but it still has bullet holes in one outside wall from the stray rounds fired that night. And I guess it didn't really matter if one guy had a nine and the other was packing a .45. One gun will kill a Ford Fiesta about as well as the other. :D

    AF
     
    Dm101 likes this.
  9. Icthruu74

    Icthruu74 New in Town

    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Michigan
    I've always been a fan of the .45, but its more because I like the platform than the caliber. I have never been able to fire a double action (revolver or automatic) with anything like accuracy, so give me a single action any day.

    If all you were going to use a firearm for is home defense I would go out and get a nice Rem 870 with the short barrel. I'm also a fan of using birdshot for home defense. I have several times seen the after effects of birdshot at close range, all of them lethal.
     
    Dm101 likes this.
  10. Atticus Finch

    Atticus Finch Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,713
    Location:
    Coastal North Carolina, USA
    Years ago, someone gave me an old Mossberg 500 and I bought an 18 inch barrel for it. It is one of my two home defense weapons. Because we live in a very rural area...we and our neighbors share over fifty acres...my "outside" weapon is an SKS. We've no children at home, so both guns stay loaded beside the bed.

    AF
     
    Dm101 likes this.
  11. amador

    amador A-List Customer

    Messages:
    372
    Location:
    Locum Tenens
    I have one of each, 45ACP and 9mm. Everybody who cares to know thinks all I have is the 9mm since I show it and practice at the range. My 3.5in barrel 45APC, no show and I practice somewhere else. Only the seller and I know about it and he dosen't know where I am. My wife asks about the 9mm and whether I am packing it. I show her the 9mm but she does not know about the 45ACP I am also packing. Someday she is going to find out about it but I consider it my true concealed sidearm. I'll hand her the 9mm and pull out my 45APC in extremis. Tricky stuff.
     
    Dm101 likes this.
  12. Gene

    Gene Practically Family

    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    New Orleans, La.
    Like my gramps always said, "Having an automatic is fine. Just make sure you got a revolver to back it up."
     
  13. Kirk H.

    Kirk H. One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,193
    Location:
    Charlotte NC
    Yep, that is why I cary a revolver as a back up while on duty. And to echo what others have said, this debate has been going on forever. Get a weapon that you are comfortable with and can shoot well. As far as self defense make sure you have the proper mindset, that and not caliber is what has won most deadly force encounters. Just my 2 cents worth.

    Kirk
     
    Dm101 likes this.
  14. Blackthorn

    Blackthorn I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    4,111
    Location:
    Oroville
    Evan Marshall did a Master's thesis on "stopping power," interviewing hundreds if not thousands of police officers about shootings in which they had been involved, what gun/caliber/bullet type. After many, many real life studies, he found that with FMJ, 9 mm and .45 were almost identical. And if you switch to .45 Hydra Shok, the "one shot stop" likelihood was 96%. With a 9 mm Cor-Bon, it was close to that. It seems bullet/ammo type counted for more than caliber.
     
    Dm101 likes this.
  15. 1961MJS

    1961MJS My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,032
    Location:
    Norman Oklahoma
    Hi

    Not to hijack, but besides a broken firing pin, what can go wrong with a revolver when you're carrying it?

    I carry Remington hollow points in the 1911, not so much for stopping power, but because they're at least LESS LIKELY to go through somebody you didn't like into somebody you didn't see... I don't carry reloads, no sense trying to get a jury worked up over nothin'.

    Just my $0.02
     
  16. warbird

    warbird One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,171
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    A revolver can lock up when the cylinder is rotating. Anyone who says they have never seen or heard of a revolver locking up hasn't spent enough time with people shooting revolvers. They are not prone to locking up, but when they do there is no easy tap, rack, bang, back in the fight fix to them either.

    Reliability of brands and platforms is another endless debate spurred on by gun writers having to come up with good things to write about. Or the lack thereof.

    Major manufacturers build quality weapons, not prone breakage. That said every shot out of your firearm without a breakage is only one step closer to a shot with a breakage.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  17. SGT Rocket

    SGT Rocket Practically Family

    Messages:
    600
    Location:
    Twin Cities, Minn
    I hear you, my current CCW is a Taurus .357 snub nose. I currently use 38 spl +p hollow-points in it. It's a nice little piece, but I've always liked Rugers. Cabela's had a sale on the Ruger P95, and a the P345 (not on sale though). I checked them both out, and both felt real nice in my hand. Then I glanced over at the Ruger SP101. Now, I'm really liking the 5720 model. It has a quarter inch longer barrel than what I currently carry, and it's only a little heavier.

    I'm very old school, like most people here I guess, but though I might like a pistol. I still haven't bought yet, but that SP 101 is now really calling my name. I may just buy a pistol now and the SP 101 later.
     
  18. SGT Rocket

    SGT Rocket Practically Family

    Messages:
    600
    Location:
    Twin Cities, Minn
    When I first got my Taurus (CIA 650) I had some misfires and the cylinder lock up. When I was shooting and it didn't fire, I took out the bullets to see what was going on. It turned out that the hammer was hitting a different place on the back of the brass. You could see the dent where the hammer hit on each one. So I sent it back to Taurus and told them what was going on and they fixed it.
     
  19. Undertow

    Undertow My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,127
    Location:
    Des Moines, IA, US
    I think it's good business that Taurus still has a lifetime warranty on their post-1984 firearms. I sometimes carry a Taurus .357mag hammerless snub nose. I've fired it many times and I've not yet had a foul up. However, having also owned a S&W 686 .357mag, I can say with certainty that there is a vast difference in quality, tolerance and ease of firing.
     
  20. Buggnkat

    Buggnkat Familiar Face

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Some place hot and humid
    Well there ya go, the first sign of the "bite". Now if she feels good, and you can squeeze em off and hit paper, you got it going on!
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.