Akubra Squatter Crown Height? And Pics of My Bushman

[Tone]

I've heard the Squatter mentioned as being a shorter crown at 5 1/4"; however, there have been a few stories that vary the height between 5 1/4" and 5 1/2".

Could someone who's had the Squatter and another 5 1/2" open crown Akubra for comparison please verify if there is a visible difference in the crown heights? Is the Squatter truly a shorter crown than the others?

THE WHY:

I have a Bushman (great hat!) but it is a 5 1/2" open crown. I have received fairly generalized answers from the hat stores in that they can't really tell the difference between the Bushman and the Squatter in terms of height. I am looking for a hat that is truly a 5 1/4" open crown. There are some threads here about the Squatter which indicate it really is a shorter crown. The question is, shorter than what? 5 1/2"? Or is it right on the cusp of being a 5 1/4" (maybe 5 1/2" ish?) It would be very helpful to hear from you folks who have one if there really is a difference.

Here's my Bushman, btw.
(I replaced the ribbon with the Adventurer's and removed the bound edge.) I know it's probably a no-no in these parts but with the bound edge it was a bit too much hat for me. But I really like how it turned out. Somebody out there might be considering the same thing, so...[huh] here's my Bushman without the bound edge.

The above pic is probably a bit warm but is pretty close to the color of the Bushman in person.

From what I can see, without the bound brim it's not too far off from some of the Campdrafts I've seen here, which makes me wonder how many Akubras are technically the same hat with the differences being the brim widths; ribbon colors; bound edge or not, etc.

Any help on confirming the Squatter's height would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[citRon]

Wow! I think it turned out great! Is that a David Morgan Bushman, or a Hats Direct Bushman (I hear they are different) or from somewhere else? Is it lined? How much width did taking off the binding remove-did you cut it off, or just remove the stitching and ribbon? How's the felt? On DM's site, the felt looks terrible-thin and ~rattty~. Have I asked enough questions?
As far as the advertised measurements go, on the Sydney, on the main page, DM shows it as having a 5 1/4 open crown, but the description page says a 5 1/2 open crown...so who knows what measurements are right without actually measuring in person- the Squatter could be mis-printed as well.
Hopefully someone with a Squatter will chime in.

fftopic: Did your 'custom order' 5 1/4 open crown from that other place pan out?

 

[Tone]

Thanks, Citron. It's a DM Bushman. The bound edge was trimmed off - maybe a 1/4" total loss without the edge - and then sanded smoothe on the raw edge afterwards.
I'm not sure what you mean by the hat looking "thin and ratty" on the DM page (Imperial felt is Imperial felt) but the color for their Nullarbor tan does look perhaps a bit mottled in their picture. It's not thin or ratty, though. (None of the Akubras I've had have been thin or ratty - just a few that are too tall to be of any use for how I wear them.) Spongey, in comparison to beaver? Perhaps. But ratty? lol No. It fits a bit more snugly than the Adventurer in the same size but it's the same quality Akubra felt.

It is lined and does have the chinstrap holes on the sides which the replaced ribbon covers up nicely.

Those different measurements you mentioned are also part of why it'd be great to hear the actual, legitimate measurement for the Squatter. I'd hate to buy one just to find out it's essentially the same height as a Bushman on a slightly different block.

The special order 5 1/4"? I think we can say Jimmy Pierce Designs here without getting up in arms and defensive about Raiders hat wars or having slanderous PMs flying about. I think. But no, no word yet, though I don't expect it to be here anytime soon. Doesn't mean I'm not anxiously awaiting it, though.

But yes, if that slight detail about the Squatter could be clarified, it'd be great!

 

[Razzman]

Great Job! The hat looks fantastic. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[kiltie]

My Squatter

OPEN:
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/HPIM1833.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/HPIM1834.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/HPIM1835.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/HPIM1836.jpg

CREASED:
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/HPIM1837.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/HPIM1838.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/HPIM1839.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/HPIM1838-1.jpg

Tone,

Hope this helps rather than hinders. I figured it'd be best to just post the pics, but didn't really account for minute variations in the head on view ( paralax - whatever ) Also, don't forget to factor for the 1/16in before the first inch like any cheap school ruler. I got this Squatter from David Morgan about two months ago, along with my Adventurer. Had the same hang up as you did with the Bushman; the Adventurer was a-okay, but the Squatter was a little "snug". In any event, I would assume the discrepancies in height are coming from whether you measure at the peak or the edges, or somewhere in between.

 

[citRon]

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=20364&highlight=bushman

He says in the first post it is 5 3/4" tall!

 

[Tone]

Thank you, Razzman. I was pretty happy with the results of the fedora hiding underneath the Bushman's bound brim. It has a very cool block shape.

Nice bash on that, Kiltie, and yes, these do help very much. Thank you for taking the time to arrange some pictures. I wasn't looking for 100% exact measurements, either; as you mentioned the exact height can vary depending on eye level so no worries on "extreme measurements". Funny how they all seem to look somewhere in the 5 3/4" range until you eyeball them from level ground with a ruler.

Based on this picture, it does look like there is a difference between the two after all - though they all seem to teeter a few mm above their listed crown height, don't they?

I'm going by this pic as pretty close to what you're seeing...
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/HPIM1834.jpg

Which makes sense because the Bushman dome stops just a bit higher at the same angle.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9926/bushmancrownheight1ni2.jpg

They all tend to look a bit like 5 3/4" at a glance to me, too, Citron. It's when you hold both sides of the brim down flat and then put the ruler next to the crown that the difference can be seen. And Kiltie, I believe you are right. The degree of dome at the centerpoint of the crown is what may be causing the various interpretations.

This has been very helpful to have seen the pics against the ruler (most helpful and straight-forward hat info I've heard in quite a while) as the Squatter / Bushman differences were a mystery for a long time.

From what I can see, there is a visibly shorter crown on the Squatter considering the degree of dome. So thank you very much for these. I like to wear the center dent without going to a diamond or teardrop on top while keeping the hat at a lower height. I do believe the Squatter is still in the running for doing that nicely. And I wouldn't mind if it capped out evenly at 5 1/4" at the peak. (I should have an example of a 5 1/4" crown from Pierce fairly soon here.)

"The Squatter, she givva me the idea..." (Which, technically FDM mentioned almost a year ago, so....)

More crown height shots for reference:

Bushman (Open crowned - though not "brand new" open)
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9149/bushmancenterdent2uy7.jpg

Bashed height with center dent.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6706/bushmancenterdentkk3.jpg

Federation (Open crowned - again, not "brand new" open) - a visible difference in height, though.
http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=federationcrowheight1bs9.jpg

Though, yes. That 1/8" on the bottom of the ruler? So they're all 1/8" taller than the numbers seen. lol (Eh, not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.)

Thanks again, guys. It's very appreciated.

 

[RBH]

Looks great!

 

[toobacat]

I think you turned your Bushman into a fine fedora. It looks gray in your second picture. I wish it came in that color.

 

[NonEntity]

OK, Tone, just for you, I compared a Nullarbor Tan Bushman and Fawn Squatter side by side and measured them with a metal machinist's rule.

Bushman: 5 1/2-inch open crown height. No taper to crown. 3 1/4-inch bound-edge brim. 1/2-inch ribbon band. Imperial Quality felt. Fully lined. Reeded roan leather sweatband. Chin strap hooks. No ventilation grommets.

Squatter: 5 1/4-inch open crown height. No taper to crown. 3-inch bound-edge brim. 1 1/4-inch ribbon band. Imperial Quality felt. Fully lined. Reeded roan leather sweatband. Chin strap hooks. No ventilation grommets.

These two hats are EXTREMELY similar. The way you form the bash and arrange the brim will have much more affect on their appearance than the barely perceptible dimensional differences between the two.

I'm puzzled as to what it is you are trying to accomplish. You got the Bushman, then trimmed off the bound-edge brim and put a different ribbon on it. The Squatter comes with the wider ribbon you apparently like, but it has a bound-edge brim, too, you know. It's available in black and moonstone, but the fawn color is only a shade lighter than the Bushman's Nullarbor tan.

Why is it that you are interested in the Squatter when you've already seriously altered your Bushman to look virtually just like it? If the 1/4-inch shorter Squatter crown height is the only reason, you are fretting over nothing. The difference is imperceptible.

 

[RockBottom]

How did you trim the brim? I've been trying to work up the courage to do it to my Adventurer. I did it to an old Statesman with scissors and it doesn't look great, even after sanding.

 

[Tone]

Thank you, Toobacat. I like the Bushman block a lot and definitely agree! It sure would be nice to see a few more color options for this one. It's a nice, versatile block for several styles, it seems.

The way you form the bash and arrange the brim will have much more affect on their appearance than the barely perceptible dimensional differences between the two.

Exactly. An 1/8" off a brim is hardly anything, too, yet it can dramatically change how the hat looks on a person's head. Those micro measurements do not show up at a general glance, but... how you bash and arrange it will show differently. I completely agree.

Thing is, I like the center dent. There is just enough hat left over, and angles in the right spots, etc. when the center dent is put in and the front pinch is established at a certain height. The forehead pushes a certain amount of the pinch up when the hat is on. So, a 4 1/2" front pinch might become 4 3/4" when the forehead pushes against it.

A 4 1/4" front pinch may become a 4 1/2" front pinch along the same lines. It's subtle, perhaps, but there is a difference (along with "the way" you form the bash.)

A teardropped or diamond dented hat gives a bit more leadway in terms of how much height can be played with on the top.

I am looking for a Raiders hat in the actual Raiders height that not only looks right from the front, but looks right on top, too, without looking too squatty, too tall, or too tall and yet somehow squatty, or very squatty and moderately tall...in addition to having the right center dent that isn't too deep or too wide in order to pull it off, also.

There are a few hats that will hold a Raiders bash with no problem, it's that they often hold the bash at an exaggerated height and look a bit too wide on the wearer's (which has become sort of the accepted norm for an actual Indy hat) head. That's how some of my other Akubras looked on me.

Essentially, I want a hat that is in the actual Raiders height range that fits the way it is seen in the movie.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1677/hatshj3xp1.jpg

The Bushman block works very well. The Squatter may be about 1/4" better for doing this. From what I can see, Indy's Raiders hat actually was a relatively short crown with an elongating front pinch making it seem taller than it actually is.

Man, that was long-winded. The short -
I'm just looking at the options out there for an accurate hat that fits the aesthetic; isn't too tall; certainly not too expensive; and shows up within about a week. (Even if it's hiding behind a bound brim and off in color a bit.)

But THANK YOU very much for the measurement! It's definitely encouraging to hear yet again that there is a difference, even if subtle, between them.

Oh, the HJ is there to show the closer height after a reblock from JPD. He brought it down a smidge in height. Compare ribbon to crown on both C & D and they look pretty close. I believe the Squatter may be in that range with the right bash.

 

[Tone]

How did you trim the brim? I've been trying to work up the courage to do it to my Adventurer. I did it to an old Statesman with scissors and it doesn't look great, even after sanding.

Rock, I use a very sharp pair of scissors and try to keep the angle of the blade as even as possible while going around the brim. I try to cut the brim as fluidly as possible all the way around in one attempt before removing the scissors. Only about 1/8th of an inch on the width at a time for each complete trace of the brim. Put scissors down, put hat on. Check brim width of the hat while it's on the head, and then sand the rough edges smooth if the width looks good.

This might seem like a silly picture but it is basically the method. Just tracing the existing brim an 8th" at a time. (On the Adventurer's already dimensional brim.)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8329/adventurertrim2ul4.jpg

 

[kiltie]

Details...

Wow...
Tone: I can't remember the last thing I was that...obsessive about. I'm not using that word in an ironic way at all. On the contrary, while not something I would dedicate myself to, I am quite impressed with your results. I hope that any disparaging comments, either here or "that other site" fall on deaf ears, as I see no difference between your pursuits and anyone elses conversions: you have a distinct image in your mind and you want to see it realized. Hats off to you sir ( pun intended ), and keep up the very impressive work.