David Conwill
Call Me a Cab
- Messages
- 2,854
- Location
- Bennington, VT 05201
Harp said:...how is the job market in Australia for criminal defenders?
They've done away with guns, so I can only imagine there's no more crime.
-Dave
-
The Fedora Lounge is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.
Attorneys and Barristers of the Lounge
- Thread starter Ephraim Tutt
- Start date
They've done away with guns, so I can only imagine there's no more crime.
-Dave
Harp
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,508
- Location
- Chicago, IL US
David Conwill said:They've done away with guns, so I can only imagine there's no more crime.
-Dave
...I was thinking more along the lines of "white collar" crime.
tortswon
Practically Family
- Messages
- 511
- Location
- Philadelphia, PA
Sorry to have been absent so long fellow bar-risters. Duty called and I answered the call of a month long trial. I am back now, a bit exhausted but ready to return to the world. Best, Sam
Ephraim Tutt
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,531
- Location
- Sydney Australia
Welcome back Sam.
What was the trial about?
You realise of course that you now owe the Bar a pic or 2, or at the very least a couple of recommendations re top notch wine and tucker!
What was the trial about?
You realise of course that you now owe the Bar a pic or 2, or at the very least a couple of recommendations re top notch wine and tucker!
tortswon
Practically Family
- Messages
- 511
- Location
- Philadelphia, PA
Tutt, part of the resolution of the matter was my signing a total confidentiality agreement that was all inclusive so I cannot talk about the trial. I have not even discussed it with Mrs. Tortswon.
As for wine and food, I will have some recommendations and pictures soon, I promise. Best, Sam
As for wine and food, I will have some recommendations and pictures soon, I promise. Best, Sam
Ephraim Tutt
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,531
- Location
- Sydney Australia
Closed court?
Ephraim Tutt
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,531
- Location
- Sydney Australia
Happy New Year Colleagues!
All the very best for a wonderful 2010 colleagues!
It's New Year's Eve here in Brisbane and Mrs Tutt chose the vino for this last evening of 2009 - a Peter Lehmann Barossa Cabernet Merlot 2006 (tho the photo is one from 2004).
Just wonderful -
I am happily floating towards midnight. See you all all the other side my friends...
All the very best for a wonderful 2010 colleagues!
It's New Year's Eve here in Brisbane and Mrs Tutt chose the vino for this last evening of 2009 - a Peter Lehmann Barossa Cabernet Merlot 2006 (tho the photo is one from 2004).
Just wonderful -
I am happily floating towards midnight. See you all all the other side my friends...
tortswon
Practically Family
- Messages
- 511
- Location
- Philadelphia, PA
Happy New Year, Tutt! Mrs. Torts and I will be enjoying a bottle of 1972 Corton Bressandes with friends this evening. Our main dish will be capon two ways, a dish I have not prepared in nearly 20 years. Let's hope 2010 outshines 2009 in every way! Best, Sam
Ephraim Tutt
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,531
- Location
- Sydney Australia
You have outdone me Brother Torts! We must make a point of sharing a table sometime in the forseeable future with our respective Mrs'.
And speaking of Mrs Tutt and of law - she who must be obeyed did buy me the first three seasons of Rumpole for Christmas...
...bliss!
And speaking of Mrs Tutt and of law - she who must be obeyed did buy me the first three seasons of Rumpole for Christmas...
...bliss!
Ephraim Tutt
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,531
- Location
- Sydney Australia
And speaking of Peter Lehmann wines...
We enjoyed the Cab Merlot so much the night before that we went through 2 bottles of the Cabernet Sauvignon 2006 last night. Bloomin' marvelous wines these.
Set 'em up barkeep. Barossa Valley reds all round!
We enjoyed the Cab Merlot so much the night before that we went through 2 bottles of the Cabernet Sauvignon 2006 last night. Bloomin' marvelous wines these.
Set 'em up barkeep. Barossa Valley reds all round!
Harp
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,508
- Location
- Chicago, IL US
Ephraim Tutt said:
Quite the Bar of Justice around this thread of yours, Ephraim.
Ephraim Tutt
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,531
- Location
- Sydney Australia
Yes indeed Mr Harp. We're dedicated to the Bar in all its forms.
Harp
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,508
- Location
- Chicago, IL US
Scholarship
Most assuredly, sir.
And in said devotion any lawyer worth his salt should prove as capable
behind the Bar, as he is learnedly eloquent before its practice.
Towards that end, I have pored an adequate measure of Kentucky
bourbon and sail forth into the turbulent sea of scholarship known
as the Bretha Et gid, the Brehon law of ancient 7th-8th Century
Ireland; examined within the prism of 19th Century Positivist theory,
all to answer John Austin's question: "What is Law?"
Armed only with my wits, undeniable devilish Irish charm,
and the December 2008 Murdoch University Journal of Law;
along with The Cambridge Collection of Contemporary Irish Poetry;
edited by Matthew Campbell- (why not, some modern perspective),
I venture forth in the service of Justice.
...after I check out the Queen Victoria motion picture thread.
Got a crush on Vicky.
Most assuredly, sir.
And in said devotion any lawyer worth his salt should prove as capable
behind the Bar, as he is learnedly eloquent before its practice.
Towards that end, I have pored an adequate measure of Kentucky
bourbon and sail forth into the turbulent sea of scholarship known
as the Bretha Et gid, the Brehon law of ancient 7th-8th Century
Ireland; examined within the prism of 19th Century Positivist theory,
all to answer John Austin's question: "What is Law?"
Armed only with my wits, undeniable devilish Irish charm,
and the December 2008 Murdoch University Journal of Law;
along with The Cambridge Collection of Contemporary Irish Poetry;
edited by Matthew Campbell- (why not, some modern perspective),
I venture forth in the service of Justice.
...after I check out the Queen Victoria motion picture thread.
Got a crush on Vicky.
David Conwill
Call Me a Cab
- Messages
- 2,854
- Location
- Bennington, VT 05201
Michigan Courthouses, Pt. 1
Glad to see the attorneys of the lounge have re-convened!
Per an earlier request, here are a few court houses in which I’ve conducted business, for your viewing pleasure:
This is my “home” courthouse. The Bay County courthouse, a former grocery store. This is a new location. The old building is a grand WPA Modern structure on Center Avenue that is now strictly the county building.
Up North in Gladwin County. The Circuit Courtroom is gorgeously original, c. 1939 art deco.
This 19th Century beauty is in Shiawassee County and looks even better inside than out. No cellphones allowed for the general public, though, so the guard asked me that members of the bar refrain from using theirs inside.
Another WPA building. This one is in Alpena County, not too far from where I was born. This one was built of local portland cement from the (then) Huron Cement Company plant (now Lafarge Corp.) in the winter of 1934. It was the first large-scale project to prove the viability of using concrete in cold weather. This one is also very nice and original inside.
This is the circuit court in Alpena, one of the few interior shots I’ve had the presence of mind and opportunity to take. Interestingly, the law library is directly behind me in glass-front cases.
Somehow I screwed this one up when I took it. This should be the Monroe County courthouse, instead it’s just the tower. Monroe County is the site of the bloodiest battle of the War of 1812, the Battle of Frenchtown and the associated River Raisin Massacre. This courthouse, like many of its age, has a large, architecturally insensitive annex added to the back. The interior of the old part is not particularly original, but it could be worse, it could be a converted grocery store.
I still need to get a picture of my local courthouse, Tuscola County, which is another WPA building. I will continue to gather shots of courthouses as I visit them. Conspicuously absent from this group is Saginaw County, which seems to be where I am most frequently, and the Eastern District Bankruptcy courthouses.
Saginaw County is a brutalist monstrosity, but deserves documentation here. The Bay City Bankruptcy court (where I am second-most-frequently) is merely rented space in a nondescript office building by the river, but its former home in the Beaux Arts Post Office (still home of the Eastern District of Michigan - Bay City Federal Court) is a beauty.
Also, the Michigan Eastern District Bankruptcy Court in Detroit is a few floors in a beautiful old skyscraper in downtown Detroit just behind the equally-impressive Theodore Levin United States District Courthouse.
-Dave
PS I should be headed to Genesee County (Flint) shortly. I’m headed to District Court, which is a fairly nondescript structure, but the Circuit Court is in an absolutely beautiful restoration. I’ll try to remember to get a picture.
Glad to see the attorneys of the lounge have re-convened!
Per an earlier request, here are a few court houses in which I’ve conducted business, for your viewing pleasure:
This is my “home” courthouse. The Bay County courthouse, a former grocery store. This is a new location. The old building is a grand WPA Modern structure on Center Avenue that is now strictly the county building.
Up North in Gladwin County. The Circuit Courtroom is gorgeously original, c. 1939 art deco.
This 19th Century beauty is in Shiawassee County and looks even better inside than out. No cellphones allowed for the general public, though, so the guard asked me that members of the bar refrain from using theirs inside.
Another WPA building. This one is in Alpena County, not too far from where I was born. This one was built of local portland cement from the (then) Huron Cement Company plant (now Lafarge Corp.) in the winter of 1934. It was the first large-scale project to prove the viability of using concrete in cold weather. This one is also very nice and original inside.
This is the circuit court in Alpena, one of the few interior shots I’ve had the presence of mind and opportunity to take. Interestingly, the law library is directly behind me in glass-front cases.
Somehow I screwed this one up when I took it. This should be the Monroe County courthouse, instead it’s just the tower. Monroe County is the site of the bloodiest battle of the War of 1812, the Battle of Frenchtown and the associated River Raisin Massacre. This courthouse, like many of its age, has a large, architecturally insensitive annex added to the back. The interior of the old part is not particularly original, but it could be worse, it could be a converted grocery store.
I still need to get a picture of my local courthouse, Tuscola County, which is another WPA building. I will continue to gather shots of courthouses as I visit them. Conspicuously absent from this group is Saginaw County, which seems to be where I am most frequently, and the Eastern District Bankruptcy courthouses.
Saginaw County is a brutalist monstrosity, but deserves documentation here. The Bay City Bankruptcy court (where I am second-most-frequently) is merely rented space in a nondescript office building by the river, but its former home in the Beaux Arts Post Office (still home of the Eastern District of Michigan - Bay City Federal Court) is a beauty.
Also, the Michigan Eastern District Bankruptcy Court in Detroit is a few floors in a beautiful old skyscraper in downtown Detroit just behind the equally-impressive Theodore Levin United States District Courthouse.
-Dave
PS I should be headed to Genesee County (Flint) shortly. I’m headed to District Court, which is a fairly nondescript structure, but the Circuit Court is in an absolutely beautiful restoration. I’ll try to remember to get a picture.
tortswon
Practically Family
- Messages
- 511
- Location
- Philadelphia, PA
David, I like your photos. Since I ride the circuit here in Pennsylvania, I think I'll join you in posting some of our Courthouses. Good job! Best, Sam
Ephraim Tutt
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,531
- Location
- Sydney Australia
Some vintage pics of Queensland country courthouses
Bowen Court house c1890
Polling day at Atherton courthouse 1928
Charleville courthouse c 1916
Ipswich courthouse 1860s
Charters Towers Courthouse (no date)
And Charters Towers courthouse today
Murray Island Courthouse & community hall Nov 1898
Bowen Court house c1890
Polling day at Atherton courthouse 1928
Charleville courthouse c 1916
Ipswich courthouse 1860s
Charters Towers Courthouse (no date)
And Charters Towers courthouse today
Murray Island Courthouse & community hall Nov 1898
David Conwill
Call Me a Cab
- Messages
- 2,854
- Location
- Bennington, VT 05201
A few more court houses:
Bay City Federal District Court: Built in the early Depression years as a make-work project. This is also the Post Office.
Bay City Bankruptcy Court: My home bankruptcy court. The building doesn’t look like much (like a lot of government buildings these days, it’s leased space), but it’s very comfortable inside.
-Dave
Bay City Federal District Court: Built in the early Depression years as a make-work project. This is also the Post Office.
Bay City Bankruptcy Court: My home bankruptcy court. The building doesn’t look like much (like a lot of government buildings these days, it’s leased space), but it’s very comfortable inside.
-Dave
C-dot
Call Me a Cab
- Messages
- 2,908
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
My Professor said something very interesting today...
"It's not the truth that matters, it's the truth you can prove."
Opinions or thoughts?
"It's not the truth that matters, it's the truth you can prove."
Opinions or thoughts?
David Conwill
Call Me a Cab
- Messages
- 2,854
- Location
- Bennington, VT 05201
C-dot said:
Probably true. If you can't get it into evidence, or imply it from circumstance, it didn't happen. That's selling finders of fact a bit short, though, as they're quite good at seeing through the obfuscation and ferreting out the truth.
-Dave
Ephraim Tutt
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,531
- Location
- Sydney Australia
Good question C-dot
I remember one retired Supreme Court judge giving a lecture when I was in law school. He said that "Law is not about truth; it's about winning." He didn't say this with any sense of approval (and in fact seemed saddened by it), but merely as a statement of fact.
On a superficial level it's true of course. A legal case is interested only in what you can prove. That does not mean, however, that lawyers can abandon truth - it simply places some parameters on what can be admitted in evidence. This is at the heart of the 'truth you can prove' statement.
Truth still plays a significant part however. Can a lawyer knowingly lead with a falsehood so long as he/she has 'proof' to support it? Of course not. Such a situation would be a breach of a lawyer's ethical obligations to the Court, client and the law and would, I imagine, run afoul of your Bar Rules.
I remember one retired Supreme Court judge giving a lecture when I was in law school. He said that "Law is not about truth; it's about winning." He didn't say this with any sense of approval (and in fact seemed saddened by it), but merely as a statement of fact.
On a superficial level it's true of course. A legal case is interested only in what you can prove. That does not mean, however, that lawyers can abandon truth - it simply places some parameters on what can be admitted in evidence. This is at the heart of the 'truth you can prove' statement.
Truth still plays a significant part however. Can a lawyer knowingly lead with a falsehood so long as he/she has 'proof' to support it? Of course not. Such a situation would be a breach of a lawyer's ethical obligations to the Court, client and the law and would, I imagine, run afoul of your Bar Rules.
