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Discussion in 'The Observation Bar' started by STHill, Jul 16, 2005.
Who cares? We are there, big deal. I'd be over there if I was younger.
WHo cares? How about the Mothers, Fathers, Soldiers, concerned citizens...the list goes on.
Surely Americans can't be so out of touch that questioning why we are using organized lethal force to "democratize" a nation bareky illicits a yawn from the population? Seriously!
You basically just said, "So what? If the government would have me, I'd be over there killing some people, just because. I don't care why, I just want to kill some people - it makes me feel like a good American."
Those conspiracies I stated were just pulled out of the air! I have no proof. It was just a rouse! [huh]
I can see I am wasting my time here. I suppose the old bromide "If you don't stand up for something, you'll fall for anything" ought to be inserted here. :kick:
Regards to all,
*Dr. Evil Voice*
I fully support our troops and just because I don't support the way went to war in Iraq (neither did Colin Powell) doesn't mean I don't think we HAVE to finish the job. The same misguided direction with power hungry civilians not listening to the advise of military leaders because of a larger personal agenda (see Wolfowitz's writings after the last Gulf War) and the fact this War has nothing to do with the terrorism or WMD as we were lead to believe it was by those same leaders looks in some small ways like another time not so long ago. (we have to stop the spread of communism in S.E. Asia.) So to follow blindly and not question can be very dangerous as history has shown.
I agree with almost everyone here, or more to the point most of the posts made here.
Is Dubya wrong in fighting the war in Iraq with more intensity then he is in fighting the war on Terror here at home? I agree that he doesn't have his eye on the ball.
One of the things I can't stand that sets me up the wall are the people elsewhere who seem to believe that Dubya is more of a danger to the world then the leaders of Al-Qaeda, or would rather believe in the fiction of a broad consperacy with in the United States... rather then believe the truth that Al-Qaeda's desires to kill as many of us because we don't worship their twisted franchise of islam.
Semper fi bro 73-77 I agree we can't leave and I believe that sooner od later we were going to have to go back into Iraq but the way we went into Iraq has hurt us world wide and we can't be isolationists because we are a world power. I don't think going into Iraq has made us any safer. I just remember all the talk before the first Bush election "I'm a uniter not a divider" "We're not nation builders" I could go on all day. When we have miss guided leaders it puts our brothers in arms in a bad possition. I love this country and have served and would serve again but this big money corporate mentality that is ruining our country is maybe the biggest enemy we have to face. When you see polititions putting there own parties agendas (and I'm talking both parties) before whats good for our nation or putting special intrest groups agendas ahead of whats best for the nation thats when my back gets up. Haliburton is still under investagation for its illegal dealings with Iran. Over 6 billion a year going to them for rebuilding Iraq and the wouldn't ecept any other bids and the former CEO is second in command, ya think theres a conflict of intrest?
Oh. really? So you support involuntary servitude? Why even bother fighting terrorists and foreign dictators if we are going to resort to our own form of authoritarianism?
By the way, the top brass at the Pentagon do NOT want a draft and have said so on the record and quite firmly. They have a war to win and about the last thing they have the desire or time for is to baby-sit a bunch of unwilling serfs.
The ONLY people these days that are calling for a draft are Leftist politicians on grounds of class warfare (i.e. because not enough rich kids join the volunteer army.) and on the premise that reviving the draft will cause tons of young people to overlook the fact that the Left wants to tax and spend their futures down all sorts of social engineering rat holes and will finally give them a reason to actually vote for them on grounds that the Left will end the war. In other words, the Left is hoping for a draft on grounds it will do for them today what it did for them in the Vietnam era. Had it not been for the draft back in the 1960s, John Kerry would probably be nothing more today than an obscure and frustrated social climber and all of his hippie friends would have been regarded as nothing more than a bunch of unsanitary deadbeats. It was the draft that served as semi-plausible bait for their wider Marxist inspired message - which all too many young people overlooked because, for very good reason, they did not want to forced off at gunpoint to die in a war botched up by a Democratic administration where the military was not even allowed to win.
I am sorry, but anyone who supports a draft - i.e. dragging young people away from their lives at gunpoint is an authoritarian, a statist and a thug. And using such tactics in the name of protecting a free country that was founded on the premise of individual rights and NOT sacrifice to the State - well, that's bloody obscene.
Wow. Sometimes I am really excited about the topics and viewpoints on this board and I start visiting more often...
...but then someone says something as depressing as the quotes above.
Same reason I stopped coming by last time around.
The Draft thing was a joke sorry, should have made that clear :cheers1: But I did like the Dr. Evil voice...
I think we get a more professional military when it is all volunteer. But then again, look at the caliber of men we had in WWII and Korea. We had a draft, but I don't think we needed it. Most men went and volunteered anyway.
Don't let me run you off Elsewhere...I'm just a lone voice in the wilderness. The views I express are not likely to be shared by everyone, or anyone for that matter.
Furthermore, I like to see folks feed their families. I know exactly 9 people that work for Haliburton, or Kellog, Brown and Root. I really could care less who got the contracts over in Iraq and Afganistan. Halliburton is employing alot of people though. I would say that Haliburton is probably really qualified to handle the job, and they are doing a fine job. So what if the VP has ties to them if it's the best company for the job. I like Corporate America, Corporate America makes things happen, like cures for disease, computers, better cars, better medicine, etc...Leave things up to the government and nothing gets done.
We ain't been bombed lately. I predict the Carle Rove thing will die a quiet death. The media is now frothing over the Supreme Court nomination and the UN Ambassidor appointment. What fickle litle puppets for the liberals they seem to be.
Maybe the Rove thing will die but from what I've read they maybe going after him for lying to the Grand Jury. If he lied they should go after him. As for a draft the only time the Corps drafted was during Nam and from what I understand they've decided to never do it again. The draft being a way to bring the upper economic sector into the services it didn't work in Nam. In fact there was a larger percentage of poor fighting with the draft then than there is now. The college deferment,the reserves and National Gaurd was a safe haven for the afluent during Nam. Thats not the case in Iraq. As much as I despised the lies of the past adminastration I also despise the hard ball potics and lies of this one. Can you just imagine if someone in that administration would have released that kind of info? Look how they went after a guy for lying about a BJ? Thats what I hate about this crazy two party system. Its winning at all cost and it doesn't matter whats good for the country. And BOTH SIDES are guilty of it. Good Night Chesty Puller....UUHHHRAAAA
Soooory for all the miss spelled words in the last post.
It frustrates me that no one seems to care that we started killing people for unlcear reasons in Iraq. Whatever the case for the war was - it isn't why we are there now. It's a shell game. Whenever someone gets up and talks about the good we are doing there, the good we are doing has nothing to do with the stated reasons for attacking Iraq. There is a record of Junior stating that we were going to go back into Iraq, LONG before his administration started manufacturing reasons to be there, so why shouldn't the motives be held up to scrutiny? Are we doing good in Iraq? Possibly, but who knows how it's going to play out in the end? I don't, no one does.
I get tired of the "liberal" media bit - there isn't a media organization out there that isn't owned by a conservative corporation - except public radio. Networks, most Cable TV, radio, it's all owned by conservative corporations. The real coup the Right has had was convincing people that the press is still Liberal. Whenever the press comes out in support of the Right, everyone is happy. Whenever they come out critical on an issue - Karl Rove/UN Ambassador comes to mind - suddenly it's "liberal media" time again. No conversation, no debate, just a built in debasement of a dissenting opinion.
Woo-hoo, Democracy in action!
It's also great that whenever the collusion of money and power (ie Halliburton, of Bush being an oil man - hey what are we doing in the Middle East?) is brought up - suddenly it's "conspiracy" time - us "Liberals" are just crazy - as though it's crazy to say that a corporation that exists to make money would exert influence in the realm of public perception (advertising/media) to make more money, when making money is the central tenant of Capitalism. Any Capitalist worth the name would just admit that's good sense. Not to mention the huge donations made by corporations to this administration - Corporations being Capitalist entities that they are, this would only make sense if they had something to gain from such donations. Any consumer wants what it paid for and Corporations paid for this administration. By the way, my use of "they" for corporations stems from the fact that legally they are regarded as people. But I'm just a liberal nut, claiming Corporations always want to make more money, right? To Hell with logic and a historical legacy of how business works, that's just crazy talk.
Jake you've made some EXCELLENT points. When the fairness act was over turned in 1987 it opened the door to the likes of Rush Limbaugh and G. Gordon Liddy to speak with out an opposing view. It frosts me that all women that Rush disagrees with are Fem Nazis. I hate the whole labeling thing (Liberal/Consevative) because the labels are used to market politics. We have an administration that hasn't vetoed a spending bill yet. That would freak out old school conservatives and to fight a War and cut taxes now theres a plan. We all saw how well the idea of not raising taxes that Johnson used ( didn't want to raise taxes during an unpopular war) during Vietnam worked in the mid to late 70s when it came time to pay the bill. Well our economy will have to pay for all this spending sooner or later. It will be after these guys are all gone and whoever gets in next time will have to clean up the mess and take the heat.
And life goes on...
and on and on and on. What an imperfect world we live in.
And Sempre Fi back at you Froggy...OOOH RAAAH!
I think that is great way to end this thread.
It has been 60 posts. I am sure that everyone has had a say by now. I am going to close this one down. Thanks for everyone's input.