Doctor.... Who? Spoilers! Really, don't read if ur not up to date.

[LizzieMaine]

I don't know what's harder to believe, really. That they just keep coming out with new twists on Shada or that someone, somewhere could bear to marry Richard Dawkins.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Well, she found it possible to marry Tom Baker first, which brought her abject narcissism, nasty temper tantrums, and alcohol abuse, so I imagine Dawkins seamed balanced and safe.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Just saw the new Doctor's costume. Don't mind the coat but the pants and braces and stripy crew neck make her look a bit like Mork from Ork. I would prefer something a bit more dignified. Just googling this I see I'm not the only one who has made the connection to Mork. Oh dear.

She looks like she's off to host a children's singalong show. I really hope the writing is going to be clever.



Mork

 

[Edward]

Ha, I thought of Mork too. A lot of folks are wary of Chibnall - he does carry the shame of having written the Cyberwoman episode of Torchwood - but I fidn it impossible to believe he can be as bad as what Moffat did to the show. I dread to think how Moffat would have treated a female Doctor - doubtless one misogynistic joke about lesbians followed by another.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I don't know what this says about the current state of Who fandom, but glimpses of 13's new sonic in the latest trailer clips raised an immediate online chorus of "hahahaha that's a sex toy!" Wait, I do know what this says abou tthe current state of Who fandom.

 

[Formeruser012523]

I barely made it through season 10. Only because there were rumors that Sean Pertwee would make a guest appearance. That never happened. I'm sure the show will look beautiful, as always, but it's just going to be a train wreck. It's split the fandom in half and this could quite possibly kill the show.

When I saw the picture, I immediately thought of Mork too.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Having found the Capaldi era clumsy and dull, but with the odd glimmer of style, I will give this new series a couple of episodes. I think Who's ratings had fallen drastically in the last couple of years so no doubt they are hoping this new Doctor will generate interest and bring people back.

The new sonic screwdriver is interesting stylistically, more self-consciously "alien" looking and less like a kid's toy - it's an improvement on the, plastic, tacky looking item Capldi had.

 

[Edward]

Frankly, an actual sex toy would be a distinct improvement on those stupid sunglasses. Future generations of Whovians will look back upon Capaldi with pity that an actor of his status was given such utter dreck with which to work.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I really wanted to like Twelve, and I did like his icy aloofness during his first season as such a break from Eleven's mania -- but Rock-n-Roll Space Dad left me just shaking my head. I don't remember any other Doctor having had such an abrupt, unexplained personality change.

I'm looking forward to Thirteen the way I look forward to any new Doctor, and am hoping for improvement. That's all I can do.

 

[Formeruser012523]

Honestly, after watching the poor material thrown at an otherwise stellar cast, I can't drudge through any more episodes. Think I'll listen from the sidelines and hope for the best, but I have to move on.

 

[Zombie_61]

I really wanted to like Twelve, and I did like his icy aloofness during his first season as such a break from Eleven's mania -- but Rock-n-Roll Space Dad left me just shaking my head. I don't remember any other Doctor having had such an abrupt, unexplained personality change...

I place the blame on Steven Moffat. He treated the show like it was his own personal playground and seemed to run with whichever whim entered his mind at any given time, and poor Peter Capaldi suffered the consequences. I would like to have seen what Capaldi would have done with The Doctor in the hands of a more capable showrunner, but that will obviously never happen.

...I'm looking forward to Thirteen the way I look forward to any new Doctor, and am hoping for improvement. That's all I can do.

This is my mindset as well, and I'm waiting until after I've seen an episode or five to form an opinion.

 

[Seb Lucas]

'Rock-n-roll space dad' - that's good and yep, it was excruciating and embarrassing. Moffat seems to be one of the most reviled people in pop-culture. I have read nothing but scathing invective about him for years. I can certainly see why, but surely it wasn't just him wielding the wrecking ball? I often wonder about Capaldi's role in all this. Did he really think the sonic glasses and the guitar were good for the show? Did he not question plots and dialogue or did he not see any problems or did he not have any power?

Tom Baker was often an arse to writers and producers about the writing which he regularly had them change. Everyone was scared of him. This was either because Baker was an unpleasant egomaniac or because he was salvaging the material. Probably both. Sounds like we needed some of this critical caprice from Capaldi.

 

[Formeruser012523]

Tom Baker was often an arse to writers and producers about the writing which he regularly had them change. Everyone was scared of him. This was either because Baker was an unpleasant egomaniac or because he was salvaging the material. Probably both. Sounds like we needed some of this critical caprice from Capaldi.

Scared of Baker? Find that odd because I had seen, in the past, videos of his now elderly self thanking fans for the birthday wishes. He would be walking about his farm with a dog or cat and laughing his maniacal laughter. Guess that's enough to intimidate anyone. lol

Capaldi was probably just happy to be playing his instrument on camera and getting paid for it. And being The Doctor while doing it. Surprised he didn't pull his weight more with Moffatt because I'm sure he could have.

 

[Edward]

I don't think stars have so much power these days.... Also bearing in mind that Capaldi was not the "pretty young doctor all the girls fancy", which had already reportedly lost the rebooted show viewer figures, it wouldn't have been so hard to regenerate him out if he'd played up. Moffat did some great stuff when he wasn't in control - and to be fair, the first two series of Sherlock were great too. Unfortunately, he seems to tire easily, and then amuses himself by upsetting the fanbase. The sonic sunglasses were only supposed to be in an episode or two, but they were so widely hated he decided to keep them in. The other major problem (we'll leave his rampant misogyny aside for another day) is that he made such a big deal of "returning the show to being a children's show", then did that classic thing that all middle-class writers of children's television seem to do: insulted their intelligence. Rumour has it that the sudden improvement in the final series, after the absolute nadir of the anniversary specials, much of Capaldi's first series and especially the dreadful, dreadful second where something like only one in three episodes were even vaguely watchable, was down to Moffat being controlled on the inside by displeased higher Powers, who allowed him to be showrunner in name and publicity alone from that point.

Going forward, I hope that the Beeb also caches itself on with spoilers: John Simms' reappearance as the Master was presented as the Twist of the Century.... which it might have been but for the fact that he had been the focus of pre-publicity and several trailers for weeks before hand. Further evidence, perhaps, that the Beeb had lost all confidence in Moffat as showrunner....

 

[LizzieMaine]

Baker didn't like John Nathan-Turner, the Moffat of the '80s, who came in, looked around, and said "all right, enough of this, we're doing it my way," when he'd been doing it his own way for six years. Which was fine, it was time for a change and all -- but then JNT proceeded to drive the show into the ground by letting the fanboys call the shots. Moffatt's pulled some clinkers, but nothing to compare to "The Twin Dilemma."

 

[Edward]

Baker didn't like John Nathan-Turner, the Moffat of the '80s, who came in, looked around, and said "all right, enough of this, we're doing it my way," when he'd been doing it his own way for six years. Which was fine, it was time for a change and all -- but then JNT proceeded to drive the show into the ground by letting the fanboys call the shots. Moffatt's pulled some clinkers, but nothing to compare to "The Twin Dilemma."

I'd argue that Moffat's approach - which largely, latterly seemed to consist of deliberately antagonising the fanboys was equally as destructive to the integrity of the show as giving them what they wanted.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Scared of Baker? Find that odd because I had seen, in the past, videos of his now elderly self thanking fans for the birthday wishes. He would be walking about his farm with a dog or cat and laughing his maniacal laughter. Guess that's enough to intimidate anyone. lol

Capaldi was probably just happy to be playing his instrument on camera and getting paid for it. And being The Doctor while doing it. Surprised he didn't pull his weight more with Moffatt because I'm sure he could have.

It's been well documented in various Dr Who 'making ofs' that Baker regularly terrified directors and writers (even before Nathan Turner) as he was extremely cantankerous and abusive about scripts and scenes if he didn't like them. Writers often avoided sitting in the episode cast read throughs because they couldn't take Baker's outrage. My favourite Baker quote is him screaming about a director on set, "I'M GETTING PSITTACOSIS LISTENING TO THIS PARROT!."

I'm sure the older Baker is lovely to his fans. Not sure there's a contradiction in this.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I'd argue that Moffat's approach - which largely, latterly seemed to consist of deliberately antagonising the fanboys was equally as destructive to the integrity of the show as giving them what they wanted.

Interesting. Do you have a sense of when it went wrong for Moffat? Was his appointment wrong to begin with or did he go wrong at some point?

As I said before, Dr Who has been wildly uneven since the re-boot began. There have been great moments and the odd almost perfect episode, but often the stories were rushed, with a focus on elements that didn't matter much and everything resolved improbably in the last 5 minutes.

 

[Formeruser012523]

It's been well documented in various Dr Who 'making ofs' that Baker regularly terrified directors and writers (even before Nathan Turner) as he was extremely cantankerous and abusive about scripts and scenes if he didn't like them. Writers often avoided sitting in the episode cast read throughs because they couldn't take Baker's outrage. My favourite Baker quote is him screaming about a director on set, "I'M GETTING PSITTACOSIS LISTENING TO THIS PARROT!."

I'm sure the older Baker is lovely to his fans. Not sure there's a contradiction in this.

Never knew this, but then I don't know much. It's funny to think of him yelling like that, but not if it affected his relationships. Ugh.

Would also like to know about Moffat because he seemed a fine writer in the beginning. Recall "Blink" being one of the good ones.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think a lot of what annoys old-guard Who fans is that Moffatt made such a deliberate effort to rewrite the show's past to leave his personal mark on it -- the whole "a Clara Oswald splinter guided the First Doctor to the Tardis he stole" bit really seemed to agitate the old fanboys, and it got to the point where it seemed like he was deliberately trolling the fans with little stunts like that.

On the other hand, Who is a series which, famously, has no specific "canon" -- every story ever published in any medium is considered just as valid as any other, so if you don't like what one story proposes, go ahead and write it off to "an alternate universe" or something. Don't take it seriously, after all, it's not like it's Star Trek or something.

"Blink" is a great story for my money. I'd pay to see a series about the adventures of Sally Sparrow.