Downton Abbey - I'm hooked

[The Wiser Hatter]

http://www.pbs.org/about/news/archive/2013/return-to-downton-abbey/

Special on tonight for Downton fans.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

One week to go until the US premire of series 4.

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

Season 4 is a good one. Just finished watching the Christmas special last night.

 

[Gingerella72]

Who watched the two-hour premiere of season 4 last night? What did you think?

 

[Doctor Strange]

I watched, and was pretty happy with most developments... apart from the Edith and Michael story, which simply can't end well. I thought the pacing was off in places, but I suspect that this has something to do with the American presentation re-editing it as 3 long episodes vs. the 8 of the UK airing.

Rose was much less annoying than I was expecting, and Edith wore two atypically gorgeous dresses. (Too bad Mary will come roaring back soon!) And can we expect a visit from first-season character Gwen (aka Ygritte on Game of Thrones) later this season, since she was discussed? But I must admit that I'm getting a bit fatigued with the Daisy-Alfred-Ivy-Jimmie quadrangle. As Mrs. Patmore said last seasn, "The problem with you is that you're all in love with the wrong people!"

But it mostly seemed pretty status quo: Robert is, as usual, wrong about everything, and the Dowager is always right!

 

[Gingerella72]

After the end of last season, I had started to like Thomas and feel sympathy for him, and now it seems he's back up to his old tricks again. I hope they don't have him completely revert to type, his character needs to have more depth.

The storyline about Carson being a former 'song and dance man' was rushed and awkward, I felt. I would have liked to have seen that drawn out a little more, perhaps wish some flashback scenes showing a young Carson.

So that was really 3 episodes smooshed together? Wow.

 

[Doctor Strange]

More like two and a quarter, or half, I think. This has been the case in the previous seasons too: the UK version runs in shorter episodes with commercials, the US version is typically recut for non-commercial PBS showings in longer timeslots. I watched the first three seasons both ways: aside from the pacing and climaxes being different, the show plays mostly the same, surprisingly.

And yes, the Carson storyline seemed jammed in especially awkwardly, and was mostly there to allow Isobel to play good samaritan (again). They've managed to play Thomas as both EVIL and sympathetic before (who can forget his breaking down and crying on Anna's shoulder when Sybil died?!?), and I trust that they'll manage it again. For now, since O'Brien is gone, he has to do more of the villainous heavy lifting for a while.

 

[vitanola]

I don't know. I was terribly disappointed in the music used in a few scenes with Rose. Do they really call that thing played at the Thé Dansant a "One-step"? The costumes and settings are so beautifully researched. It is a terrible shame that the music director did not take a half-hour to find out what popular music sounded like in 1922.

 

[Doctor Strange]

I'm sure Rose's upcoming visits to "jazz clubs" will be far worse in terms of accurate music replication. What was played as "jazz" in England in 1922 (if the term was even being used yet) wouldn't even sound like jazz to a current audience, so I totally expect ersatz circa-1930 Armstrong/Ellington/Henderson.

CORRECTION TO A STATEMENT FROM A COUPLE OF POSTS AGO: I see that PBS is NOT running Downton in three extra-long segments, but eight episodes. I was confused becase Sherlock starts in a couple of weeks... but it will be airing AFTER one-hour Downton episodes in the 10-midnight slot.

 

[Zemke Fan]

Buy the Season 1 and Season 2 books of complete scripts by Fellowes.

VERY enlightening and worth the investment for true fan boys/gals.

 

[Worf]

Sigh... out with one villainess and in with another... But at least most folks KNOW she's rotten to the core. And can the lady of the house be more effin' gullible? Every scoundrel in England should be fighting over who gets to mislead her NEXT! Goodness gracious, some times I tire of the whole mess. Money, who gets the money? Control who has control? Virginity when will I lose my virginity? Shee ya!!!!!!!

Worf

 

[Brian Sheridan]

My wife and I are still pretty mad at actor Dan Stevens leaving the show in a lurch. They should have just replaced him with another actor for Season 4. It is common in soap operas (and Doctor Who). I suspect Stevens has hurt his career instead of easing out of the show or making limited appearences. It wasn't
like he had been on the show for 60 episodes.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Of all the people to do that to, they choose Anna!

 

[sheeplady]

I watched, and was pretty happy with most developments... apart from the Edith and Michael story, which simply can't end well.

Yeah, all Edith can bag is a married man, who's moving to soon-to-be Nazi Germany, who cheats at cards.

Poor Edith.

 

[Worf]

Well... didn't see THAT coming!

Worf

 

[Gingerella72]

Poor Anna, indeed. In the real past, a housemaid would lose her position if this became known, no matter how horrific it is, the woman was still blamed in those days for "loose conduct". (Heck, women are still being blamed today but that's neither here nor there.) I'm interested to see how this unfolds, and if the writers will stay true to era dictates. They haven't so far, with a lot of scenarios over the last seasons behavior that has taken place among the staff have been tolerated by the Granthams that I don't think would have been tolerated in real life.

Also, enough with Edna trying to land Tom. This was a dead storyline last season, why bring it up again?

 

[sheeplady]

Poor Anna, indeed. In the real past, a housemaid would lose her position if this became known, no matter how horrific it is, the woman was still blamed in those days for "loose conduct". (Heck, women are still being blamed today but that's neither here nor there.) I'm interested to see how this unfolds, and if the writers will stay true to era dictates. They haven't so far, with a lot of scenarios over the last seasons behavior that has taken place among the staff have been tolerated by the Granthams that I don't think would have been tolerated in real life.

I don't know about this.

I've always thought that social values changed long before laws. For instance, although women were at one time legally property, that did not mean that every man treated his wife and/or daughters as property. In fact, the only way these laws changed is because so many men and women were already morally past them. I can imagine certain behaviors being tolerated and kept hush hush purely out of liking for a person. I really don't think that in the past a woman like Mrs. Hughes who had affection for a woman like Anna would immediately throw her to the wolves if she knew she was raped. If anything, something like a rape would be kept even more closely guarded to the chest if you cared for someone AND knew the consequences of others knowing would be the person you cared for will be cast out to the wolves.

So a long story short: even though the mores of the time might be to cast her out not everyone was in lock step with those mores (just like we're not a monolithic culture of one set of morals on any given subject) and people back then (just like now) can and do have a greater allowance of behavior they find distasteful or (even more importantly) society finds distasteful in people they like.

I just dislike the portrayal of the past as being mono-cultural and mores as the only morals that existed. In a hundred years from now, people are going to have some warped views on how we felt too if we assume legality and mores are always the rule of personal morals.

 

[sheeplady]

Can I ask what all these men see in Mary? Isn't there supposed to be a surplus of women because so many men were killed in the war?

While I know she's somewhat attractive her personality isn't necessarily a stunner. While her son will inherit Downton and the estate is still intact, it is facing financial issues, and it isn't like the man is going to hone in on that money. Plus, she's a widow. There's a ton of never-married never-had-a-child women running around who are a lot younger than she is now too.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

I suspect Mary is attractive because of the way she carries herself; confusing her aloofness and arrogance with being interesting and different. She's also the epitome of tradition, and the upstairs class certainly has interest in holding onto tradition. They aren't prepared for their women to be progressive.

IMDB:

"In the UK, Downton Abbey airs on a commercial network, ITV, and therefore has commercial breaks built into it. In the U.S., it's shown on a noncommercial network, PBS, which has underwriting credits and other network material before and after the episode, but no interruptions during it.

For the PBS airings, the series is edited (by the production company) into fewer--but longer--episodes than are aired in the UK. For season 1, PBS requested cuts of about 25 minutes total to fit the episodes into certain timeslots. (A wildly inaccurate article in the UK's Daily Mail newspaper claimed that some two hours of content had been removed.) However, the season 1 DVDs sold by PBS and other U.S. outlets contained the unedited UK version of the show.

Because of viewer criticism, subsequent seasons on PBS have aired intact, only being restructured into fewer episodes as mentioned previously. PBS has used timeslots ranging from 60-120 minutes to accommodate the series."

 

[Fading Fast]

I don't know about this.

I've always thought that social values changed long before laws. For instance, although women were at one time legally property, that did not mean that every man treated his wife and/or daughters as property. In fact, the only way these laws changed is because so many men and women were already morally past them. I can imagine certain behaviors being tolerated and kept hush hush purely out of liking for a person. I really don't think that in the past a woman like Mrs. Hughes who had affection for a woman like Anna would immediately throw her to the wolves if she knew she was raped. If anything, something like a rape would be kept even more closely guarded to the chest if you cared for someone AND knew the consequences of others knowing would be the person you cared for will be cast out to the wolves.

So a long story short: even though the mores of the time might be to cast her out not everyone was in lock step with those mores (just like we're not a monolithic culture of one set of morals on any given subject) and people back then (just like now) can and do have a greater allowance of behavior they find distasteful or (even more importantly) society finds distasteful in people they like.

I just dislike the portrayal of the past as being mono-cultural and mores as the only morals that existed. In a hundred years from now, people are going to have some warped views on how we felt too if we assume legality and mores are always the rule of personal morals.

This is very astute and consistent with the life I experienced growing and - as I got older - hearing stories from my parents and grandparents about how life really was "below the surface." Women did get abortions - and "everyone knew but no one said anything" because they didn't want the young girl's life / reputation ruined - was a way that society dealt with a surface norm and law that as sheep lady says - social values had or were moving past. The same thing happened with affairs that were known to happen, but not discussed so that families weren't ruined. I saw this with how my school, in the 1970s, viewed a pretty well identified gay male teacher - everyone ignored that he was gay so that there wasn't an issue (we all knew but didn't acknowledge it outwardly). And, those who didn't play along with this game, were viewed as the trouble makers.

To be clear, I am not advocating that this is a good end-state position at all; I am only saying that sheep lady is spot on in identifying a social process that seems to be an interim step as a law or severe social norm eventually is changed. I think she is right that below-the-surface acceptance by some is an important step.