Daniel Veit
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 164
Thanks Marc, very much appreciated!
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Field Leathers
- Thread starter MrProper
- Start date
I look forward to every new Field Leathers jacket build as would anyone waiting but I especially look forward to your LeatherTogs Marc, because of that jacket itself and the information you provide with the build.
Amazing work!!
Your build also doesn’t have the pull at the upper chest/front deltoid area when zipped that many cross zip do. Do you think that is a product or your front girth expansion or sleeve rotation?
Amazing work!!
Your build also doesn’t have the pull at the upper chest/front deltoid area when zipped that many cross zip do. Do you think that is a product or your front girth expansion or sleeve rotation?
I have a shave bag by Campomaggi, I love it. Their washed leather has a rugged appeal to it.
Marc mndt
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 6,855
My deerskin FW sunset has a medium weight moleskin lining. I easily wear that jacket up to 15C / 60F.
Could you show me a picture of the pull issue you're referring to?
I’m hoping it works out for Damon, but my experience has usually been that unless something is a direct military reproduction, the Japanese usually use the least warm version of the material (due to their mild climate), whereas moleskin in the west is sold specifically as a cold weather layer.
And that said, an average winter day there is 21.7°C! Interesting place. I own too much outerwear to consider living there.
I looked for more but Google is not my friend today and for some reason this one members jacket keeps popping up. But it should give you some idea of what I was referring to
It’s prominent when zipped, almost as if there is not enough material in that area for the particular person wearing.
It’s also not uncommon in other brands so it’s not specifically for Fields. It just brings to light the difficulty of tailoring an unforgivable material to every individual body shape.
Your Aviator does not have this pull, in fact you can see just a small wrinkle in this pose which shows you have enough material to move freely.
As much as I like all the attention to detail, your knowledge when it comes to altering the fit jacket and also the final result the customer shouldn’t have to know all that to end up with a well fitting jacket.
It should be up to the maker to make the job right. I know online is tough but some tailors do that very well.
It should be up to the maker to make the job right. I know online is tough but some tailors do that very well.
What you see there is a chest measurement too small for the wearer I'm afraid.
mvilla
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 481
- Location
- Bristol, UK
Can't Greg make that fit jacket out of something cooler, like some Tartan or whatever and then it is wearable as an alternative version of the leather jacket? Hahaha
It feels like a waste having a "complete" jacket which is not functional
It feels like a waste having a "complete" jacket which is not functional
You really eliminated all those points. I see you went 18.5” on the shoulders again. Obviously they are not pointy in the slightest on your Aviator.
Do you think they might have been if you went a bit wider?
Do you have other jackets that you can think of off hand with wider shoulders?
Did you adjust the front girth as you did the rear?
My Kensington is 19” across the shoulders and is just slightly tight, not bad and I suggested to Sam to go 20” but she countered with 19.5” which is probably for the best. I obviously don’t want overhang.
I thought for sure when I saw that vintage belt buckle that you were going to have vintage zippers on your LeatherTogs.
I have been meaning to share my FL experience and it seems now is a good time, with some doubts swirling. Another case study might help those in the queue.
But I want to start at the beginning. As @Aloysius astutely pointed out, I'm one of those whose interest in leather jackets stems from my love of rock and punk music. I think it was pictures of the Stooges in cafe racers that first drew me to that style, and in the early 2000s I wore a Schott 141 and eventually a 641HH, which I still own. While I always admired cross zip designs, I avoided them for fear that it would be "too much" for my typically understated style. But my style has grown bolder with age and about a year and a half ago, I found myself really wanting a black cross zip. I discovered Aero's Indian Ranger and was immediately drawn to 40s style pocket configuration. The brass zippers also had a softer look, less "leather daddy" than all nickel. And the sleeve gusset design seemed like a great idea to avoid bunched up leather (something that would bother me when zipping the sleeves of my 641HH). But being a slim guy, I wasn't sure if the fit would work for my frame. It must have been on this forum that I discovered Thurston Bros and their Ridley design, and on their FB page I found a "Ridley Indian Ranger" in CXL FQHH.
I was in love. The style of an Indian Ranger but in a slim fit, and even the olive stitching looked great. I got in touch with Carrie, told her I wanted the above, and placed an order. But unfortunately, it wasn't a straightforward process. First, Aero refused to use CXL FQHH, saying they were no longer using that for Rangers. They claimed that the CXL FQHH was too difficult to work with when making the sleeve gussets. I was a bit confused, as there were many examples of CXL Rangers to be found. I wasn't in love with their Vicenza leather from what I had seen of it, but I read here about Badalassi and that seemed like a great option. It did raise the cost, which I wasn't happy about, but at least it seemed like a superior leather. Though as we attempted to finalized the order, Aero began refusing to include various parts of the IR design, like the sleeve gusset and the one piece back, this time without any reasoning. I assume it was a matter of being period correct: they only wanted to make a full Indian Ranger if it was correct to the original. If I wanted a Ridley fit, they were suddenly stubborn about what could and could not be done with that, despite the fact that they had previously made the jacket I wanted! This was of course frustrating and Carrie was understanding of this. I decided to cancel the order.
It was around when my Aero order was going south that I saw some mentions of "FL" on here. After figuring out what the abbreviation stood for, I found Greg's website and the interview he did with AVS. I was thrilled to read that he loved slim cuts. At that time, his bespoke option was about the same cost as the custom Ridley I had cancelled. I wanted to stay below $1500 USD so FL seemed like a great option. I emailed Sam with what I wanted, she said it was doable, and I placed the order. In the waiting time, I realized with further reading here that I could completely customize the jacket in any way. I began gathering ideas from different classic styles (Indian Ranger, J-24, One Star Perfecto) as well as other FL jackets. Of course I was impressed with @Marc mndt's custom Manhattan and loved the coin pocket. I decided to borrow that detail. But while I know what I like when it comes to style, I'm no clothing designer and I was concerned that I was approaching Frankenstein territory. I spent way too much time making a Photoshop mockup and Marc very kindly looked it over and reassured me. He also suggested a cuff detail. Here's the final mockup:
I was torn about a belt. I think they look good, but it didn't seem to have practical purpose on a bespoke jacket that will fit well and never see a motorcycle. J-24 style belt loops seemed like a good alternative to keep the bottom from looking too bare, and left the option to add a belt if desired. I initially loved the exposed zippers of the Ranger, but eventually grew to like Greg's standard welt pockets. The exposed zippers might have been a bit too tough, or "bad" (see Michael Jackson video of the same name). The welts keeps things a bit more understated, and Greg's look great.
I was pretty sure I wanted full aniline and the leather samples confirmed that. For lining, I was very tempted by the Lochcarron patterns, but I tend to run hot. And for where I live and plan to live in the near future, it rarely gets below freezing. I thought wool would be too warm. I'd rather have a jacket I could wear as much of the year as possible. I also wanted the most durable lining possible because this was intended as a daily wear jacket. Greg and Sam were in the middle of changing their basic lining option from viscose to cotton drill. This suited me fine as cotton drill is more durable. They only had a few colors and no olive to match the stitching. I went with khaki. But I also wanted viscose for the sleeves for that slippery arm ease. They had some olive viscose left so I used that for the sleeve. A bit odd perhaps to have different lining colors, but it's our secret, ok?
I'll backtrack a bit to the mockup jacket. I didn't want to use my 641HH as a guide because it was never a perfect fit and had stretched over the years, plus it had underarm footballs and a bi-swing back so a very different design. I used a denim jacket instead, which may have been a mistake as it is a very boxy cut. Sam and Greg adjusted the sizing a bit to my body measurements, but the mockup was still too wide in the middle and bottom hem:
The back was the biggest issue with all the extra material bunching up there. I went with Sam's suggestions to reduce the abdomen and bottom hem by 1.5", mostly taken from the back sides material as the front seemed good. She also suggested an extra 1" drop to the front. I got some advice from her on sleeve length (this is somewhat a matter of preference) and decided to shorten them by a half inch (a bit hard to judge on the mockup since there are no zippers but I compared to other jacket sleeve length and left some length for leather bunching). There were also the dreaded shoulder points. Sam suggested reducing the shoulder to shoulder by 1 inch. This would make it 16.25" which seemed quite narrow as most of my well fitting shirts are 17". We settled on 16.75" and I hoped for the best. I also had Marc's arm rotation in mind. It's possible the pattern has been changed since his Manhattan, as it didn't seem too far off. My mockup happened to have one sleeve rotated about a half inch differently from the other. From the back view picture, the left arm seemed to have less bunching at the tricep. I asked for that rotation for both arms, basically putting the sleeve hem a half inch closer to the yoke line.
The jacket arrived in December and I'm thrilled with it. It looks like everything I hoped for. Greg modified the pocket a bit from Marc's but I think for the best. It fits better with this 40s/50s style. The leather looks, feels, and smells great. It seems quite deep in color from what I know (my wife thought it was brown, so there's that). The fit was immediately comfortable, even though the new leather is quite stiff. The below pictures I took shortly after receiving it.
One cool thing about sleeve gussets is you can do this on hot days haha:
In conclusion, I couldn't be happier. I am not a jacket expert and this was my first bespoke anything, which was a bit nerve racking. But with some careful planning and research here (thanks!), it felt doable. And special thanks to @Marc mndt for the ideas and vote of confidence. Having not only a bespoke jacket but also a custom design is pretty special. I only spoke with Greg briefly and mostly worked with Sam. She was incredibly helpful and patient with all my questions. There were a couple bumps along the road, some miscommunication, but she was always very gracious.
I think Marc is right that these patterns run small/slim. But I'm pretty slim so I did not size up. As for the shoulders, I think the intended style is for them to be square but it seems this can cause points if there is too much material. I'm not seeing any points in my final jacket. I just had to go a little smaller on the shoulder to shoulder measurement than I would have thought, so that might be something to keep in mind to avoid the points. The only other thing I would mention is that I felt a bit of pressure on my neck when first wearing the jacket. But after hanging on a jacket hanger (zipped up), this seemed to go away. I think the hanger gave the shoulders the curve they needed. I expect wear would have also done it, though I haven't had many chances to wear it as it's currently summer here in the Southern Hemisphere. Can't wait for fall when I can really start breaking this in.
Disclaimer: I'm not a jacket expert so please excuse any mistakes or incorrect terminology.
Thanks for reading (or skimming) and I welcome any thoughts or corrections.
But I want to start at the beginning. As @Aloysius astutely pointed out, I'm one of those whose interest in leather jackets stems from my love of rock and punk music. I think it was pictures of the Stooges in cafe racers that first drew me to that style, and in the early 2000s I wore a Schott 141 and eventually a 641HH, which I still own. While I always admired cross zip designs, I avoided them for fear that it would be "too much" for my typically understated style. But my style has grown bolder with age and about a year and a half ago, I found myself really wanting a black cross zip. I discovered Aero's Indian Ranger and was immediately drawn to 40s style pocket configuration. The brass zippers also had a softer look, less "leather daddy" than all nickel. And the sleeve gusset design seemed like a great idea to avoid bunched up leather (something that would bother me when zipping the sleeves of my 641HH). But being a slim guy, I wasn't sure if the fit would work for my frame. It must have been on this forum that I discovered Thurston Bros and their Ridley design, and on their FB page I found a "Ridley Indian Ranger" in CXL FQHH.
I was in love. The style of an Indian Ranger but in a slim fit, and even the olive stitching looked great. I got in touch with Carrie, told her I wanted the above, and placed an order. But unfortunately, it wasn't a straightforward process. First, Aero refused to use CXL FQHH, saying they were no longer using that for Rangers. They claimed that the CXL FQHH was too difficult to work with when making the sleeve gussets. I was a bit confused, as there were many examples of CXL Rangers to be found. I wasn't in love with their Vicenza leather from what I had seen of it, but I read here about Badalassi and that seemed like a great option. It did raise the cost, which I wasn't happy about, but at least it seemed like a superior leather. Though as we attempted to finalized the order, Aero began refusing to include various parts of the IR design, like the sleeve gusset and the one piece back, this time without any reasoning. I assume it was a matter of being period correct: they only wanted to make a full Indian Ranger if it was correct to the original. If I wanted a Ridley fit, they were suddenly stubborn about what could and could not be done with that, despite the fact that they had previously made the jacket I wanted! This was of course frustrating and Carrie was understanding of this. I decided to cancel the order.
It was around when my Aero order was going south that I saw some mentions of "FL" on here. After figuring out what the abbreviation stood for, I found Greg's website and the interview he did with AVS. I was thrilled to read that he loved slim cuts. At that time, his bespoke option was about the same cost as the custom Ridley I had cancelled. I wanted to stay below $1500 USD so FL seemed like a great option. I emailed Sam with what I wanted, she said it was doable, and I placed the order. In the waiting time, I realized with further reading here that I could completely customize the jacket in any way. I began gathering ideas from different classic styles (Indian Ranger, J-24, One Star Perfecto) as well as other FL jackets. Of course I was impressed with @Marc mndt's custom Manhattan and loved the coin pocket. I decided to borrow that detail. But while I know what I like when it comes to style, I'm no clothing designer and I was concerned that I was approaching Frankenstein territory. I spent way too much time making a Photoshop mockup and Marc very kindly looked it over and reassured me. He also suggested a cuff detail. Here's the final mockup:
I was torn about a belt. I think they look good, but it didn't seem to have practical purpose on a bespoke jacket that will fit well and never see a motorcycle. J-24 style belt loops seemed like a good alternative to keep the bottom from looking too bare, and left the option to add a belt if desired. I initially loved the exposed zippers of the Ranger, but eventually grew to like Greg's standard welt pockets. The exposed zippers might have been a bit too tough, or "bad" (see Michael Jackson video of the same name). The welts keeps things a bit more understated, and Greg's look great.
I was pretty sure I wanted full aniline and the leather samples confirmed that. For lining, I was very tempted by the Lochcarron patterns, but I tend to run hot. And for where I live and plan to live in the near future, it rarely gets below freezing. I thought wool would be too warm. I'd rather have a jacket I could wear as much of the year as possible. I also wanted the most durable lining possible because this was intended as a daily wear jacket. Greg and Sam were in the middle of changing their basic lining option from viscose to cotton drill. This suited me fine as cotton drill is more durable. They only had a few colors and no olive to match the stitching. I went with khaki. But I also wanted viscose for the sleeves for that slippery arm ease. They had some olive viscose left so I used that for the sleeve. A bit odd perhaps to have different lining colors, but it's our secret, ok?
I'll backtrack a bit to the mockup jacket. I didn't want to use my 641HH as a guide because it was never a perfect fit and had stretched over the years, plus it had underarm footballs and a bi-swing back so a very different design. I used a denim jacket instead, which may have been a mistake as it is a very boxy cut. Sam and Greg adjusted the sizing a bit to my body measurements, but the mockup was still too wide in the middle and bottom hem:
The back was the biggest issue with all the extra material bunching up there. I went with Sam's suggestions to reduce the abdomen and bottom hem by 1.5", mostly taken from the back sides material as the front seemed good. She also suggested an extra 1" drop to the front. I got some advice from her on sleeve length (this is somewhat a matter of preference) and decided to shorten them by a half inch (a bit hard to judge on the mockup since there are no zippers but I compared to other jacket sleeve length and left some length for leather bunching). There were also the dreaded shoulder points. Sam suggested reducing the shoulder to shoulder by 1 inch. This would make it 16.25" which seemed quite narrow as most of my well fitting shirts are 17". We settled on 16.75" and I hoped for the best. I also had Marc's arm rotation in mind. It's possible the pattern has been changed since his Manhattan, as it didn't seem too far off. My mockup happened to have one sleeve rotated about a half inch differently from the other. From the back view picture, the left arm seemed to have less bunching at the tricep. I asked for that rotation for both arms, basically putting the sleeve hem a half inch closer to the yoke line.
The jacket arrived in December and I'm thrilled with it. It looks like everything I hoped for. Greg modified the pocket a bit from Marc's but I think for the best. It fits better with this 40s/50s style. The leather looks, feels, and smells great. It seems quite deep in color from what I know (my wife thought it was brown, so there's that). The fit was immediately comfortable, even though the new leather is quite stiff. The below pictures I took shortly after receiving it.
One cool thing about sleeve gussets is you can do this on hot days haha:
In conclusion, I couldn't be happier. I am not a jacket expert and this was my first bespoke anything, which was a bit nerve racking. But with some careful planning and research here (thanks!), it felt doable. And special thanks to @Marc mndt for the ideas and vote of confidence. Having not only a bespoke jacket but also a custom design is pretty special. I only spoke with Greg briefly and mostly worked with Sam. She was incredibly helpful and patient with all my questions. There were a couple bumps along the road, some miscommunication, but she was always very gracious.
I think Marc is right that these patterns run small/slim. But I'm pretty slim so I did not size up. As for the shoulders, I think the intended style is for them to be square but it seems this can cause points if there is too much material. I'm not seeing any points in my final jacket. I just had to go a little smaller on the shoulder to shoulder measurement than I would have thought, so that might be something to keep in mind to avoid the points. The only other thing I would mention is that I felt a bit of pressure on my neck when first wearing the jacket. But after hanging on a jacket hanger (zipped up), this seemed to go away. I think the hanger gave the shoulders the curve they needed. I expect wear would have also done it, though I haven't had many chances to wear it as it's currently summer here in the Southern Hemisphere. Can't wait for fall when I can really start breaking this in.
Disclaimer: I'm not a jacket expert so please excuse any mistakes or incorrect terminology.
Thanks for reading (or skimming) and I welcome any thoughts or corrections.
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Salmosalar
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 414
New FL incoming - should arrive later this week - esentially an aviator crosszip mash up with elemts of my previous two orders and a few new tweaks - eg the buttoned pocket etc. it has the new sleeve rotation too, so will compare and contrast with the others….this is in the Italian brown cowhide. Can't wait to try it on now!
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Great job! The jacket looks truly one of a kind, and fits you perfectly.
Kenan
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 347
IMO that happens when people buy a jacket that is too small. Some people tend to buy leather jackets in a fashion fit, meaning it will be very tight. I had that issue too with some of my jackets. That’s before I learned what sizing works best for me etc. In all the pictures you linked with that issue I would say it’s simply because the jacket is too small. The shoulder width is waaay to tight too.
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+1
- Messages
- 10,279
@calvin006 well, you and FL nailed it. Looks great.
Definitely nailed it and as I was reading I was worried that the shoulders would be too narrow but they clearly are perfect.
The one with the mutton collar looks great too
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dudewuttheheck
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 4,277
I agree with this. People shouldn't have to do Marc's modification to get the jackets to look better.
Squirrel_hero
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 73
Wow those last two posted jackets look sweet. I definitely can see a FL jacket in my future. But I agree with the rest of you that you shouldn’t have to be is knowledgeable is Marc to get the fit right. Like I feel like I’m gonna have to ask Marc 10 questions before I finally submit to FL. Marc is not getting paid to help… Although I think most of these companies should be giving him a fat discount because of all the free marketing he does for them by always looking bad ass in their jackets! But in the meanTime I don’t think I’ll bug him and I’ll just wait a little till Greg gets the shoulder point problem resolved. That is to me his only flaw and I’ll pass on the possibility of pointy shoulders. But fl next on my list for sure.
Marc mndt
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 6,855
I don't know tbh
I own several jackets with relatively wide shoulders. There's nothing wrong with wider shoulders, they make a great 50s look.
No, but if course that also grew with going one size up.
I did source the exact same main zip slider as the one on the original leathertogs, but unfortunately it was slightly too small to fit a modern repro zipper.
@calvin006 thanks for sharing this great write-up on your amazing looking jacket.
That's funny, my gf thought the same about my black full aniline FL. It has a reddish hue when brand new (which fades away with wear).
Well, there's two ways of looking at this. We could also applaud them for being open to feedback, for their willingness to improve their patterns.
I'm not getting paid by any maker nor am I getting any discounts. I'm just happy that there are makers who are willing to do full custom projects with me, putting up with all my crazy request lol. The time and effort Greg and Sam put into making my last two jackets is crazy. It took him multiple days just to sew the leathertogs.
Edit : typo
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