Field Leathers

[Boulderunner]

That sure is a toxic type of comment to me.

Toxic would be saying I must be naive or must not know good leather because I want what I actually paid for (like Damon said to me above). When I respond by saying i have many jackets and know my leather and craftsman ship probably better than most on this forum you call me toxic....i see how things work around here.

 

[Kenan]

Toxic would be saying I must be naive or must not know good leather because I want what I actually paid for (like Damon said to me above). When I respond by saying i have many jackets and know my leather and craftsman ship probably better than most on this forum you call me toxic....i see how things work around here.

If you knew about leather you wouldn’t only be mentioning Shinki, Badalassi and Horween. Just saying….

 

[Boulderunner]

Your analogy would only apply if you could be sure that Greg's alternative would not be equivalent.
What makes you think that Greg would accept inferior quality in his choice of leathers? Again... it will be best if you discuss this with Greg directly. And then share your findings here ;-)
If you have so much experience in leather jackets, then hopefully you won't claim that horse per se has a higher quality than cow. Ultimately, it depends on the tannery, right? Not even professionals can distinguish horse leather and cow leather without a doubt.

im not even saying what he is offering is inferior.....its just completely different and not equivalent. horse and cow leather are completely different. that's not even up for debate. a struck through horsehide compared to a tea core cow hide. they couldn't be more different in how they look, feel, age, the tightness of the grain. Even the brown shinki he offers now is very very different than the pony hide and really shouldn't be compared.
ultimately you are right! I need to talk with Greg directly and sort this out. He is a great guy and wants his business to succeed so im sure we will figure out a solution. Honestly I am probably just going to go with the cowhide unless he lets me pay extra to get badalassi or something super unique.

 

[MrProper]

im not even saying what he is offering is inferior.....its just completely different and not equivalent. horse and cow leather are completely different. that's not even up for debate. a struck through horsehide compared to a tea core cow hide. they couldn't be more different in how they look, feel, age, the tightness of the grain. Even the brown shinki he offers now is very very different than the pony hide and really shouldn't be compared.
ultimately you are right! I need to talk with Greg directly and sort this out. He is a great guy and wants his business to succeed so im sure we will figure out a solution. Honestly I am probably just going to go with the cowhide unless he lets me pay extra to get badalassi or something super unique.

To my knowledge, Badalassi is always cowhide (?). If you would like horse, that is out of the question. I find Badalassi a dream and would always prefer that to horse. By the way, I also like Horweens CXSH better than CXFQHH. Not because it looks so different visually, but wears more comfortably. I find at least.

 

[handymike]

Deep breaths- all around!

I’m sure that if you’re unhappy with the hide choices when your order comes up, you can wait for other browns, select something else, or get your deposit back.

This happened to me when my GW was made. John’s first jacket was in Shinki “dark seal” and was incredible. Unfortunately the supply ran out, and for my remake I had to decide between Italian HH or something else. Ultimately, John hand-dyed another color of Shinki to create something unique. I love my one (maybe of 4) off-colored jacket.

 

[Boulderunner]

To my knowledge, Badalassi is always cowhide (?). If you would like horse, that is out of the question. I find Badalassi a dream and would always prefer that to horse. By the way, I also like Horweens CXSH better than CXFQHH. Not because it looks so different visually, but wears more comfortably. I find at least.

yes badalassi is always cow....I have a Mushmans jacket in Badalassi that is my favorite jacket of all time. If I had to only pick one jacket I would pick that one over my Mulholland, FW sunset, FW bodie. its incredible leather but it just finally stopped creaking when I move. also insane tunneling in the arms.

 

[Kenan]

yes "Kenan"...you got me. I am so uncool. My lack of tacky hand tattoos and nausea at the use of the phrase "just sayin" must have given it away.....

Wow you are a special character man

 

[Boulderunner]

Deep breaths- all around!

I’m sure that if you’re unhappy with the hide choices when your order comes up, you can wait for other browns, select something else, or get your deposit back.

this +10. Greg is the man, im sure we will work something out. I was proud and glad not to give another 2650$ to Dave and to support an up and coming guy.

 

[Marc mndt]

Even the brown shinki he offers now is very very different than the pony hide and really shouldn't be compared.

Even the pony of his first batch was very different than the pony of his second batch, see pics below. They couldn't be more different in how they feel, age, tightness of the grain. Even the color itself is different. So if he were to get another batch of the pony, why says you are going to like it? Maybe it'll look totally flat without any color dept or grain.

I do wonder which specific qualities you attribute to cowhide and which to horsehide.

 

[Boulderunner]

here is an article from the man himself on this very topic....

https://www.horween.com/blog/2010/12/14/by-request-whats-the-difference

 

[Boulderunner]

this is a quote by Nick HORWEEN....

When comparing horsehide to cow/steerhide, there are big differences. Horsehide has a coarser grain, huge differences in weight (even across the same hide, and generally is lighter/thinner), is more abrasion resistant, has a different fiber structure, and displays much more variation and natural markings. Cow/steerhide is more versatile in that it is much more consistent in terms of weight and usable area, which means yields are better. Cowhide is also much more readily available.

 

[handymike]

Having had jackets made from both, I also prefer Horween’s steerhide over the horsehide.

 

[Boulderunner]

and this goes back to my original issue, of ordering horse and being offered cow... its like buying an oak table and being offered pine.... completely different. and yes there is still a kind of low end pigment dyed tea core brown horsehide available but that would be like ordering an oak table and being offered like oak plywood or something. its still oak! it just looks like ass...

 

[Boulderunner]

Having had jackets made from both, I also prefer Horween’s steerhide over the horsehide.

I actually think I agree with you on this. I have a pair of Role clubs made in horween horsehide that im not super into. the boots are great, the leather leaves me wanting....I have another pair of role clubs he made me in regular horween cowhide and they are thick and oily and really nice pull up character.

 

[handymike]

Horween Steer is great for boots!
I have 2 pair of brown (Worverine & Frye) and they look great, even after years of wear. A little coat of Blackrock and they spruce right up.
Badalassi is an incredible leather. The depth and ability to evolve is pretty special. Your Mushmans jacket must be a stunner.

 

[FL2021]

And Greg's interview with Carl... The one which received much attention, which drew some of us here on this form....Greg was asked what was his favorite leather... Almost forgot about that... To the best of my knowledge anyways...if memory serves correctly.
It's published online...

 

[Aloysius]

Yep. As you can see the tweaked Manhattan pattern Aviator is very close to the FW leathertogs repro. Just needs a bit less front drop and narrower sleeve ends.

Almost certainly going to go for one of these Marc specials. Just a matter of figuring out which.

Bought a horse jacket. If what people on this forum is accurate, He didn’t like matching horsehide panels, so instead he substitutes a completely different animal with completely different properties. Cow and horse have completely different qualities. Moreover he is substituting a struck through horsehide with tea core cowhide.

They don’t. If tanned identically they’re indistinguishable to the eye. Horse has a historical cachet because they used it in the 30s and 40s but they used it because it was cheap and abundant. It wasn’t considered special at the time. Postwar, farming mechanized and people could afford more beef so it was a direct substitution.

The qualities of horse and cow are so similar that Greg Eastman had to DNA test vintage jackets to figure out which were which. The tanning method determines more than anything else.

I am surprised you don’t know this, given:

I have probably more jackets than many people on here put together. I probably have more freewheelers and himels alone than many people on here put together.

 

[Boulderunner]

Almost certainly going to go for one of these Marc specials. Just a matter of figuring out which.


They don’t. If tanned identically they’re indistinguishable to the eye. Horse has a historical cachet because they used it in the 30s and 40s but they used it because it was cheap and abundant. It wasn’t considered special at the time. Postwar, farming mechanized and people could afford more beef so it was a direct substitution.

The qualities of horse and cow are so similar that Greg Eastman had to DNA test vintage jackets to figure out which were which. The tanning method determines more than anything else.

I am surprised you don’t know this, given:

see above quote from Nick Horween of Horween leathers who begs to differ with you....im okay with not being able to distinguish horse from cow hide in a hundred year old jacket. New though, I bet a lot of times they are very different, for the reasons stated in the article I linked above. I can tell which of my jackets are horse and which are goat and dear and cow....especially when new.

 

[Peacoat]

This thread has calmed down; let's keep it that way.

Marc: Thanks for not rising for the bait.

 

[Aloysius]

see above quote from Nick Horween of Horween leathers who begs to differ with you....im okay with not being able to distinguish horse from cow hide in a hundred year old jacket.

He is talking about the raw hides. In other words, the fresh skin off of a cow or horse.

Post tanning, they become visually pretty much identical. In fact, this was the basis for a scandal in which an unscrupulous seller was selling horsehide as a premium upgrade, then selling cowhide anyway despite the upcharge. This was obviously an act of fraud, however it is telling that so many people with wide jacket and leather collections couldn't tell the difference…

New though, I bet a lot of times they are very different, for the reasons stated in the article I linked above.

On the contrary, the minor differences between cow and horse hide, if visually apparent at all, only become so as the jacket is worn in and the leather develops break.

I can tell which of my jackets are horse and which are goat and dear and cow....especially when new.

Deer, goat, and sheep hides are completely distinct from horse and cow. Those two in particular are nigh-indistinguishable. You're introducing irrelevant things here to obfuscate this point.

I mean I could double down with you that I can tell the difference between stingray or crocodile leather and cowhide. Sure. That doesn't say anything about cow v horse in particular.