Formal Wear Primer

[Charlie Huang]

Studs: the fewer the better is all I can say on this matter.

 

[Edward]

I can't recall any black or white tie dress code I've ever seen giving a "proper" number of studs. My boiled front shirt which I wear for white tie requires three, which feels just right for me. Any fewer, and inevitably the shirt would gape every time I moved, boiled front or no.

I think your look was fine and certainly did the FL proud. However, whilst the peak lapel is slightly more formal than the shawl lapel, I think this is often over-exaggerated by the experts of the lounge. A shawl collar is still formal enough to be worn with a waistcoat (though your choice of a cummerbund was perfectly appropriate) and contrary to what the experts here say I think there is nothing aesthetically or sartorially wrong with this.

For the most part, we're likely to be the only people who'd even notice that sort of detail, let's face it.

Why not? If one simply limits things to the extreme then black tie would be sooner to the grave than you could think...

Quite. IMO, it's like the "no brown shoes with blue trousers" thing: too many "rules" kicking around which are actually opinions passed off as rules!

 

[Charlie Huang]

Three would be the most. It depends on your height. If you are tall you would take more studs. And the shirt also has something to do with it. A very stiffly starched shirt bib (has to be marcella of a heavier weight or many more layers of cotton for the bib to achieve this) could just take one stud and not bellow out (provided that the bib is the correct length and ends above the waist and does not enter the trousers).

 

[Tomasso]

Weren't we talking about semi-formal?

 

[Charlie Huang]

Yes, but they can use the same stiff-shirt. I suppose a soft shirt needs to take more studs but no more than three. Anymore and it would look too 'busy' and cluttered. It is suppose to be a formal dress shirt so it ought not to have the same buttoning stance as a day shirt.

My advice if you insist on having more than three studs is to use MOP/silver faced ones rather than the oynx to draw less attention to the fact.

 

[dhermann1]

I've been looking for MOP, I really like that look better.
BTW, Feraud's post caused me to take a long sojourn on the blacktieguide.com website. Just full of useful, not to mention FASCINATING detail. And he's going to have a whole new white tie guide within a couple of weeks.

 

[AntonAAK]

I've been looking for MOP, I really like that look better.
BTW, Feraud's post caused me to take a long sojourn on the blacktieguide.com website. Just full of useful, not to mention FASCINATING detail. And he's going to have a whole new white tie guide within a couple of weeks.

Agreed. That site is superb.

 

[Tomasso]

Yes, but they can use the same stiff-shirt.

See, I wouldn't wear single link cuffs with semi-formal. But then that's just my personal preference. I don't think that semi-formal is or ever was as hidebound as formal. Also, a few of my semi-formal shirts have covered plackets; I'm sure that going studless would bother some here.

 

[Charlie Huang]

See, I wouldn't wear single link cuffs with semi-formal. But then that's just my personal preference. I don't think that semi-formal is or ever was as hidebound as formal. Also, a few of my semi-formal shirts have covered plackets; I'm sure that going studless would bother some here.

Black tie at the very beginning was worn with the same shirt as with white tie (inc. white bow tie and white waistcoat). The soft version only came around the Edwardian period which by the end of it and due to the DoW's influence afterwards caused a softer shirt to be preferred but the stiff shirt is still correct to be used. Again, restriction only leads to early death especially when there is no good reason to restrict it.

 

[Tomasso]

Again, restriction only leads to early death especially when there is no good reason to restrict it.

Unless it's the matter of the number of studs worn....................

 

[Richard Warren]

Mother of pearl with a dinner jacket? Good lord man.

 

[Feraud]

Why the startled reaction? Mother of pearl is a common material used in shirt stud and link sets..

 

[Charlie Huang]

MOP with black tie: why not? I have seen plenty of photos and pictures of MOP with black tie...

Unless it's the matter of the number of studs worn....................

Ha! Well, there is reason to restrict it in this case: elegance. And as I said, in the past only one or two studs were worn as the shirts took only one or two (pleated soft ones, three). The whole 5 stud shirts we see in modern times is basically a cost cutting measure to use an existing shirt pattern rather than develop a special one; add to the fact that the materials used are soft and flimsy and that the bib has lengthened (by 5" than what it should be) and the abandoning of a waistcovering and the wearing low-cut trousers meaning more holes meaning more studs.

My soft fold down collar marcella shirt that I wear (or use to wear) for black tie had a bib so long that it went straight into my trousers and if I wore all the 5 studs on the 5 holes it had, the fourth would go inside the waistband and the fifth be located on my crotch (discomfort is a word to describe it). I had to have the bib shortened and now it takes 3 studs and with the waistcovering, only two studs show (the third just about peeks out a bit depending on which waistcoat I wear). I'm 5' 9" so if I was taller, three would show (and this is based on the modern spacing of the holes; a stiff-front shirt will have the holes spaced out more and for my white tie, only one stud shows (depending on which waistcoat I wear) with the stiff-front shirt (modern, which I also had the bib shortened) which has two stud holes (originally, it had three)). Unless you're over 6' 5" wearing a modern style shirt without waistcovering, no more than three studs should show by that reason alone.

 

[dhermann1]

I saw a 1933 flick last night where George Brent was in black tie. He wore a pretty high wing collar, a black waistcoat, and his shirt had a single stud. And he wore a very wide peak lapel single breasted dinner jacket. The look was very classy and classic, but also very archaic. I think what Charlie says about the shirt patterns is interesting, and I don't doubt it's true. Of course the nicer shirts are a whole lot more expensive, and just plain hard to find.

 

[Charlie Huang]

I find modern shirts to be too much of a bother because of required alterations to make it correct and so I'm more focused on getting vintage examples which fit straight out of the packet without further need of alteration. If I go bespoke then yes, they will fit to my exacting standards but for me it is far cheaper getting a vintage one.

 

[BrandonCarlson]

I bought a vintage shirt for about 5 bucks on Ebay, it closes in the back and has two buttonholes in the front. I find that the stiff front shirt is useful for whatever look you're going for and always classy for evening wear. For black tie I can wear a wing collar or a turn down collar using the same shirt. Also shirt studs are a nice way to add that little something that separates you from the crowd, I have different shapes and colors of studs that just add a subtle touch of class. That's the nice thing about black tie you have a lot of subtle variations, black or midnight blue suit, different collars, lapels, studs etc. I don't understand why more people don't like to don evening wear, I kind of like dressing for the occasion whenever I go out.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Removed.

Spam???

 

[dnjan]

I bought a vintage shirt for about 5 bucks on Ebay, it closes in the back and has two buttonholes in the front.

How comfortable is the back closure if you are seated (theatre, etc.)? I would think that some of the back buttons would line up with vertebrae in a most uncomfortable manner.

 

[BrandonCarlson]

It just has one button in the lower back area which is pretty easy to button yourself and isn't noticeable when wearing it. the top is closed by the collar stud, so it really only closes in two spots and it's pretty comfortable just a little odd having all front and no back when you're also wearing a backless vest. but it feels just fine when you have a jacket on.

 

[draws]

I have two vintage (1920s) formal bib shirts with rear buttons. On my two shirts, there are two buttons and the collar stud. The top buttons are about 6 inches below the collar stud and the second (lower) button is just below the middle of my back. Both buttons are very easily accessed. As for comfort, I have worn these shirts at several vintage events and have not experienced any discomfort with the buttons whatsoever. Neither have I noticed any discomfort when sitting. Quite frankly, I much prefer the rear button shirts over those buttoned in the front since the front studs are for appearance only and present a much cleaner finish to the overall appearance of white tie and tails.