Help dating this brown Borsalino

[J. Brisbin]

Picked up a nice brown Borsalino at an auction yesterday. I'm not sure I can date it accurately. The estate was from a 96 year-old whose husband died in 1956. She kept most of his things, including this hat.

It's a thin ribbon, wide brim (2.5") with a 4.5" crown.

Inside, there is a coat of arms sort of and underneath that it says "ALESSANDRIA"

The serial inside the sweat band says:

1B040 64034 C

I would love to get some feedback on the age. I'm not sure if the "64" in the serial means 1964 given I know it's been her basement longer than that. It could also have come from someone other than her late husband, though.

What do you think?

 

[alanfgag]

I recently purchased a very similar Borsalino Feather Weight - also from Naples, but the shop of Salvatore Balbi. The mark is different, but the hat color is the same. It's a wonderful and incredibly light hat. I am guessing late 40's early 50's.

 

[mayserwegener]

This one is in that gray area (see my recent Echter Borsalino Homburg). I tend to think this one is very late 30s very early 40s but it could late 40s very early 50s. Beautiful hat!

 

[danofarlington]

Picked up a nice brown Borsalino at an auction yesterday. I'm not sure I can date it accurately. The estate was from a 96 year-old whose husband died in 1956. She kept most of his things, including this hat.

It's a thin ribbon, wide brim (2.5") with a 4.5" crown.

Inside, there is a coat of arms sort of and underneath that it says "ALESSANDRIA"

The serial inside the sweat band says:

1B040 64034 C

I would love to get some feedback on the age. I'm not sure if the "64" in the serial means 1964 given I know it's been her basement longer than that. It could also have come from someone other than her late husband, though.

What do you think?

I have no particular expertise, but eyeballing it makes me think it's from the middle 1950s. I remember back to the style of my grandfather's hat.

 

[Widebrim]

I'd say early-/mid-'50s.

 

[mayserwegener]

It does have the corrigated vent and non reeded so maybe so. Would like to see the paper tags.

 

[danofarlington]

I'd say early-/mid-'50s.

Yes, I agree with early 50s. I just saw the movie "Strangers on a Train" by Alfred Hitchcock, 1951, and in his cameo appearance in the movie, Hitchcock boards a train wearing a hat with the dimensions and look of that one.

 

[jimmy the lid]

J. Brisbin -- nice Borso!

In order to take a constructive approach to dating this lid, a number of factors need to be considered. Eyeballing this particular Borso, the following characteristics stand out:

1. Liner logo -- is it possible to ascribe this particular liner to a particular period of time? My own sense is that this is an earlier logo design -- but, this is subject to some further investigation.

2. Liner protector -- appears to be oil silk, which has yellowed and dried out over time. I tend to associate this characteristic with pre-50's Borsos.

3. Red and white paper size tag -- once again, I tend to associate this style of tag (found on Borsos produced for the European market) with pre-50's Borsos.

4. Taped seam on sweatband -- another feature that I would associate with a pre-50's Borso.

5. Non-reeded sweat -- in light of the other features listed above, I'm not sure that this is a determining factor. My own sense is that the non-reeded sweat was used pre-50's as well as 50's and beyond.

All things considered, I think this is an older Borso that could easily be pre-50's. In the end, however, any conclusion on this needs to be weighed against known examples of various components that can be definitively tied to particular points in time. This is all more of an art than a science, but it's important not to forget the science, which provides more useful answers than random guessing.

This thread provides a couple of examples of lids that are very similar to your own.

While perhaps leading to more questions than it answers, this thread may also be of interest.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[rlk]

1-5 all common on 50's hats as well(some into 60's). Borsalinos are really tough. Same styles for decades as well as liners and size tags. Generic red and white tag not associated with Borsalino specifically and observed 30's-70's. European non-reeded are sometimes the Traveler rollable produced for unknown period until the present. My guestimtion--40's or 50's. If we could see that factory paper stamp we could give it a decade at least.[huh]

 

[mayserwegener]

***** Borsalinos are really tough. Same styles for decades as well as liners and size tags. *****

So true!

 

[scottyrocks]

The serial inside the sweat band says:

1B040 64034 C

Shouldnt this piece of info be helpful?

Actually, now that ive googled everything I can think of, I cant find a way to date these hats on the web.

 

[rlk]

Shouldnt this piece of info be helpful?

Actually, now that ive googled everything I can think of, I cant find a way to date these hats on the web.

There are stamps beginning mid-70's with a recognizable date number but earlier ones the codes are indecipherable.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Borsalinos are really tough [to date].

Agreed. And, as to the particular hat in question, it's a tough call.

My judgment is a bit swayed, however, by the yellowed oil silk liner protector. The first hat in the additional thread I included above has such a liner protector, and someone would have to work hard to convince me that it's post-50's. Then again, that observation comes from actually holding it in my hands and comparing it to other lids.

So, don't know the age of the hat in question -- but it wouldn't surprise me if it was actually pre-50's.

One way or the other -- it's a nice lid.

Cheers,
JtL